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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:15 pm
Posts: 49
Hello,
I have recently acquired a Litespeed Ghisallo frame and I am now in the process of assembling the bike around it.
There are three issues I ran into up to now and I would like to ask for advice:

1. The inner diameter of the head tube (the lower part) is 33.75 while the ID that is mentioned on the Cane Creek AER headset is 33.90. The one solution would be to ream the head tube to a larger ID, however there doesn't seem to be much material available even though it is only 0.15 mm we are talking about.

This is not a new frame, i have bought it second hand, so it had obviously already had headsets installed. I wonder how they did it.

What would you advise me to do?

2. The rear brake support tube is round, does not have plane surfaces as usually. As far as I know these frame were delivered by Litespeed with a set of concave washers that have to be installed each side of the tube. Because my frame didn't have I looked around and found these:

http://www.reditopedi.com/1-2-moon-wash ... c58-bg-10/

The question is however if these would be the right size for the tube on the Ghisallo frame?
Also the above product description doesn't mention that there would be 2 different ones available, with different hole diameters for the brake axle and the brake nut, so I am bit skeptical about it.
I also consider making my own washers, however that would be a bit of a hassle given that I do not own a machine shop.

Any help locating a set of washers that would help me solve this issue is highly appreciated.

3. The plan is to use a braze on front derailleur and for that I bought the 34.9 mm Ratio carbon clamp. However when I installed the clamp and the front derailleur the clamp was not sitting tight on the seat tube when I had completely tightened the screw. It turns out the seat tube diameter is 34.8 mm!
Anyone else experienced this on their Ghisallo frame? If yes how did you solve it?

I am planing to either add a carbon layer inside the clamp or to file away some material from the clamping section (where the screw is) in order to shorten it's length and achieve a tighter fit.
Any other idea that allows me to easily solve this issue is highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:33 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 1959
Location: NoVA/DC
34mm means it takes external cups. It is an interference fit, the cup should be 0.1mm or so larger than the frame. When pressed in, the frame will stretch a bit.
Brake washers- pics would help a bit, but it used to be that Shimano brake calipers came with a few washers, concave included. I'd bet some shop in your area has a drawer with some of those washers laying around.
FD clamp- a bit of a shame on the tolerances, I would use assembly grip paste for sure, and a couple pieces of a cut up Red Bull can if needed.


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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:33 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:26 am 
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For press fit, the OD of the HS should be slightly larger than the ID of the HT. That said, 0.15mm sounds bigger than most numbers I have seen. 0.05 seems more common. Did you measure the accurate ID of the HT? It may have stretched after previous uses.

Better be careful, I have indeed seen busted head tubes from a bad fit (titanium that is).

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:15 pm
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thisisatest wrote:
34mm means it takes external cups. It is an interference fit, the cup should be 0.1mm or so larger than the frame. When pressed in, the frame will stretch a bit.
Brake washers- pics would help a bit, but it used to be that Shimano brake calipers came with a few washers, concave included. I'd bet some shop in your area has a drawer with some of those washers laying around.
FD clamp- a bit of a shame on the tolerances, I would use assembly grip paste for sure, and a couple pieces of a cut up Red Bull can if needed.


Thanks for your advice.
Indeed the headset is EC (external cups), strangely though the Head tube ID is smaller then what was expected (33.75 instead of 33.9) and the cups OD is 33.95. I am still curious how did the previous owners mount a headset in this head tube. Maybe the Ti headtube is stretching less then the Aluminum headset is being compressed? I am really curious to know.

Tried a very well known LBS where they have an older Litespeed frame exposed and the owner told me that he didn't see one of these washers for ages now. Looks like I'll have to go hunting for them on the net.

Yeah a shame for the FD clamp, however the clamp is the right size to be honest, it is the seat tube which is smaller then expected. I will see what I can do to solve this one, it will be the easiest issue to solve out of the three I have.

Thanks again for your kind advice.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:15 pm
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elviento wrote:
For press fit, the OD of the HS should be slightly larger than the ID of the HT. That said, 0.15mm sounds bigger than most numbers I have seen. 0.05 seems more common. Did you measure the accurate ID of the HT? It may have stretched after previous uses.

Better be careful, I have indeed seen busted head tubes from a bad fit (titanium that is).


I used a digital caliper to measure the ID of the head tube as well as the OD of the headset, I wish it was a mistake but it is not.
There is not much material left for increasing the ID so I am tempted by finding a way of decreasing the size of the head set's OD, I'd rather have a busted headset then a busted head tube.
The only unknown is about how did previous owners mount a headset in this head tube?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:22 pm 
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Location: UK
Calipers aren't the best way to measure an ID due to the overlap of the jaws. This could account for some or most of the difference. A micrometer or a plug gauge would be a better bet to get an accurate reading.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:57 am 
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Location: NoVA/DC
I think reaming the head tube is not such a bad idea, if you can find a shop that will ream it. Most shops, myself included, don't like to ream or face ti frames bc they are hard on shop cutting tools. It's much less stressful to the head tube than, say, pressing it anyway and having it stretch that far.
then again, ti can stretch pretty far. And if it's as thin as you are describing, it should stretch pretty easily.
On top of all that, unfortunately litespeed aren't known for super tight manufacturing tolerances.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:15 pm
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5 8 5 wrote:
Calipers aren't the best way to measure an ID due to the overlap of the jaws. This could account for some or most of the difference. A micrometer or a plug gauge would be a better bet to get an accurate reading.


You are right.
I do not have a micrometer though or a plug gauge.
Maybe the lower part of the headtube has the right ID but then the upper part is larger as I measured it with the very same caliper.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:31 pm 
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thisisatest wrote:
I think reaming the head tube is not such a bad idea, if you can find a shop that will ream it. Most shops, myself included, don't like to ream or face ti frames bc they are hard on shop cutting tools. It's much less stressful to the head tube than, say, pressing it anyway and having it stretch that far.
then again, ti can stretch pretty far. And if it's as thin as you are describing, it should stretch pretty easily.
On top of all that, unfortunately litespeed aren't known for super tight manufacturing tolerances.


I am going to check with a few shops though honestly they look rather strange to me when I talk about a Ti frame, carbon and Alu are the rule nowadays followed by steel.
Or maybe I'll just calculate the difference in stress with the smaller ID and see if Ti can take that amount of stress without it being a problem.

Another possibility would be to try to track down a headset with a slightly smaller OD, like 33.85 mm, though I guess these are standardized and there is no such thing.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:07 am 
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Chris king will likely make you one undersized. they do offer oversized fits for frames with wallowed out head tubes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:19 pm 
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thisisatest wrote:
Chris king will likely make you one undersized. they do offer oversized fits for frames with wallowed out head tubes.


Many thanks for the valuable info.


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:30 pm
Posts: 3
I also own a Litespeed Ghisallo , bought from a friend , a few months ago.

I bought it , though as a complete bike , with Dura Ace 7800 components and Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels , and it hits the scales at 7600gr ...
It had an Easton EC90 seatpost (31,6mm), with no setback and I tried to put instead a Dura Ace I had (27,2 mm ) with an adapter.
The Easton , was forced to pulled out , it was very firmly fitted ...
The adapter was from a Giant TCR ONCE frame , in which it fitted perfectly.
When I pushed it in the Litespeed's seat tube , it was stucked inside so firmly, that I couldn't take it out anymore ( I had to hit it with a mallet - I know , very stupid decision of the moment ... :sorry: :doh: )
So I realized -the hard way, that the inside diameter of the seat tube is something less than 31,6mm and I took it to a store to get it out , with a proper tool ...
I thought it could be easy, but after half an hour of efforts (and many curses ) , it was only 2 cm out of the frame ...

I am going next week to take it , if the guys there can make it ...:)


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 292
not sure if these are the washers your looking for

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10x-Concave- ... 460e6c290e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

depending on the model Ghisallo you have, litespeed make a special FD bracket for the ovalised seat tube

http://litespeed.shptron.com/p/front-de ... tube?pp=12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


on my Ghisallo, I just used a chris king 1 1/8" in headset

http://chrisking.com/headsets/hds_nts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image


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Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:05 pm 


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