The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Wookieopolis
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Location: Berkeley, CA

by Wookieopolis

I used Mac 424s on my recent build and have had no issues with them, either in the build process or on the road. I haven't put many miles on the wheels yet though. The price is certainly attractive and if they hold up in the long term they should prove to be a great alternative to CX-Rays. A lot of the wheelsets coming from China use these spokes and I haven't seen any complaints.

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Anders
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by Anders

I'm building up a wheel set based on Specialized Roval hubs and have a hard time figuring out how to calculate the spoke length on the rear DS. The hubs use straight pull spokes all over.

The rear hubs specs based on my own measurements are:

NDS flange diameter: 27mm
DS flange diameter: 62mm
NDS flange to center distance: 43mm
DS flange to center distance: 16.5mm

The hubs will be laced to Reynolds Assault rims from 2009 (ERD 566mm) with internal Pillar Hex nipples (10mm), so need to correct for this. As you can see from below image the triplet lacing on the DS has adjacent crossed spoke pairs and this is exactly what confuses me when trying to put the data into a spoke calculator.

I would appreciate any help on specifying the spokes for this build.

Image

by Weenie


bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Found this. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89693" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2 ... 12721.html

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Anders
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by Anders

bm0p700f wrote:Found this. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89693" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2 ... 12721.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Thanks for the links, I found them already. I have searched the internet extensively for any information regarding this special lacing and no one else but Specialized apparently use this version of the triplet lacing. Everyone else seems to either run 3x on the DS or place the NDS spokes between the DS spoke pairs and not between each pair as Specialized do. A bit hard to explain, but I hope the picture illustrates it.

djay001
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Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:59 pm

by djay001

Anders wrote:
bm0p700f wrote:Found this. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89693" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2 ... 12721.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Thanks for the links, I found them already. I have searched the internet extensively for any information regarding this special lacing and no one else but Specialized apparently use this version of the triplet lacing. Everyone else seems to either run 3x on the DS or place the NDS spokes between the DS spoke pairs and not between each pair as Specialized do. A bit hard to explain, but I hope the picture illustrates it.


can you weight your hub? i got a set of roval fusee sl E5 with the same hubset, the rear rim got some crack beside off the nipples, i will rebluid these with some new rim in the future, but i'm really interested too know the weight of these.

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Anders
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by Anders

Rear hub with DT 240 internals and Shimano rotor is 216g. The type is called DT Swiss LF07 and is the 2nd generation. I'm still waiting delivery of thr front hub, bit expect it to be around 90g.

neverwasbeen
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:06 pm

by neverwasbeen

Maybe a stupid question, but if a rim manufacturer states the max tension as 130kgf, is it ok to have the average spoke tension at 130kgf? If the tension variance on the build is say +/- 5%, the highest tension spoke would be 137kgf - is this acceptable? Or is it better to drop the tensions so the average is say 125kgf and the highest tension spoke 130kgf?

The wheels I have built in the past typically have a range stated, but the archetypes I'm building just have the max stated.

Thanks.

Beancouter
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:04 pm

by Beancouter

Currently having my wheels built up by LBS. they were less than excited at the prospect as they have bad experiences with A340's. my build is on BHS hubs, CX rays, laced radial front and 2x rear. Does anyone have a view on spoke tensions or lessons learned from their own builds?

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

what spoke count, what you wieght riding style.... All this is impostant.

The stans alpha is good up to 1200N of tension. So a stans alpha wheel should be tensioned like a normal wheel. 1000N front and 1100-1200N rear with NDs tension to keep the wheel dished. The bitex hub has a short DS spacing I think so you will need 1200N of DS tesnion on the rear and NDS tension will be low but the wheel shoudl be stable if you are relatively smoth and you have enough spokes in the rear.

Beancouter
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by Beancouter

Sorry, new something was missing! 24/28

Beancouter
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by Beancouter

Should read whole reply! Weight 75kg - style, not particularly aggressive - typical weekend ride 60km with 4000 - 6000 feet of climbing.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I think you would be O.K with that. Your LBS should be able to build those fine. If they are reluctant have they said why, you could approach someone else but I would choose an hub that give a 50% tension balance ideally as alot of climbing probably means high torque on the rear wheel. I don't think the bitex hub does that but I don't know for sure as I do not use them.

You LBS is proabably worried about low NDS tension and spokes snapping as a result.

gjash
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by gjash

Great thread. Thanks to all for all the info. Wanted to contribute a little bit myself for informational purpose if anyone else might be thinking of a similar build. It's a Miche Racing Hub set 28H, Kinlin XR-240 rims and Sapim lasers with aluminum spokes. Build went smoothly and used a Park TM-1 for tensioning. It's my first time to use Sapim lasers previously I had used DT Revolutions, Competitions, Champions. The Sapim Lasers seemed to resist twisting more than the Revolutions. I prepped with light grease on the spoke threads and where the nipple interfaces with the rim. Seemed to work well.

Info:
F-Hub Miche Racing 28H 146g (actual) (left/right flange diameter 40mm, center to left flange 32mm, center to right flange 32mm) from Miche, not measured
R-Hub Miche Racing 28H 286g (actual) (left/right flange diameter 46mm, center to left flange 37.2mm, center to right flange 14.6) from Miche, not measured
F-Rim Kinlin XR-240 28H 455g (ERD 590) I weighed but ERD from Kinlin
R-Rim Kinlin XR-240 28H 460g (ERD 590) I weighed but ERD from Kinlin
Nipples Sapim 12mm Aluminum Alloy Poly-Ax Nipples -14G - Silver 16g
Front spokes 28 Sapim Lasers 283 MM 128g (x2 cross)
Rear spokes NDS 14 Sapim Lasers 281mm 63g (x2 cross)
Rear spokes DS 14 Sapim Lasers 279mm 63g (x2 cross)

Total weight came in at 1621g. Not bad for a training wheel.
See pics here if interested.
https://plus.google.com/photos/103848618420828916227/albums/5834291956125449297?authkey=CLrBjOK7-OmDbg

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Nice build but miches rear rub DS spacings are wrong. The DS to centre spacing is 16.75mm and the NDS to centre spacing is 38mm. Giving a tension balance depending on crossing and ERD of the rims of about 44%.

I am sure that build will work well. The only thing wrong with those hubs is the weight but then again they do last and last and last....

by Weenie


gjash
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Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:42 am

by gjash

bm0p700f, I noticed you had mentioned that earlier in the thread and it made me nervous for a bit because I had already ordered my spokes, but when I punched in 16.75, the calculators gave me the same lengths. I know I should measure myself, but I previously built some wheels with some other Miche hubs and confirmed their specs at that time so they passed my QA for future builds—little risky though.

one question: we throw around weight numbers of the wheel, but is it important the ratio of weight from rims, spokes and hubs. Seems to me that weight of the rims would be a lot more important than the weight of the hubs. I'm thinking my next build will be Dura-Ace (not especially light) with super light carbon rims. whatcha think?

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