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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:11 am 
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Posts: 63
GZA wrote:
Why not get an 11spd cassette and drop the 11 sprocket? None of us really need that anyway ;)


I'm going to do a version of this and drop a loose cog.


Last edited by skinnywellfed on Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:12 am 
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ave wrote:
My plan is to modify a 10sp cassette to work with 11 speed indexing.
Obviously I cannot modify the space betwen the 3 and 2 cog clusters, but I can change the space between the two clusters and then between all the other cogs.
The tiny difference in the two clusters will not be a problem.



You are a great "idea man". Did you carry out your plan?


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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:12 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:31 am 
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GZA wrote:
jasjas wrote:
the indexing/spacing is different so you d stil need the sti's/chain/cassette - one the USA top spesh guys did that as he didnt have an 11sp wheel
bit pointless for the rest of us, surely?


Not if you want to use a 10 speed wheel?


I think Wheels Manufacturing, Interloc Racing Design, Ambrosio.co.uk or some unknown company is going to create a solution for all those with (10) speed free hubs. Many companies are of course creating retrofit-able (11) spd free hubs, but others are not. So possibly one of these conversion companies will create a (10) speed cassette that has the (11)spd Dura Ace 9000 spacing. You will of course only have (10) cogs.
Then again anyone can accomplish the same thing by pulling one of the loose cogs out of a 9000 cassette and installing it on your (10)spd free hub.
And possibly one of these companies will create a true (11) spd cassette that will fit on a (10) spd free hub.

Currently Wheels Manufacturing already makes a Shimano splined (11) spd cassette that has Campy (11) spd spacing between each cog. So...........if D Ace 9000 and Campy spacing is as close as some have said, the Wheels Manufacturing conversion cassette should allow you to run D Ace 9000 on your Shimano (10)spd free hub and use all (11) cogs.

Someone pony up the $160.00 and let us know. I'm not that someone.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:40 pm 
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skinnywellfed wrote:
Does anyone know if the BOYD wheels use the Novatec hubs?


No, we do not. And for this year we have completely redesigned the hubs from the ground up. It's completely a new design.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:10 pm 
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What caused the re-design?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:26 pm 
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We wanted to take our line to the next level, and I had some ideas that at least I think are great for the hubs.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:55 pm 
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OK, I tried it.

The goal was to file down the "steps" at the bottom of the freehub body to create 1mm of additional room so the 11T cog in the 9000 cassette can engage on the splines.

This is the first time I filed or drilled anything in a very long time... so I didn't know what to expect.

The aluminum in the 182 freehub body appeared to be soft, so the first stroke took out some anodization without difficulty. I went on for another 15 minutes, and took out maybe 0.7mm of material, which allowed the 11T cog to engage not by too much. I wonder whether hard sprinting would strip the aluminum splines. Fortunately I torqued down the lock ring and the cassette was able to go down even further (by probably 0.2mm) so that allowed the lock ring to wind maybe another half circle.

It looks like if I file off another 0.3mm, then the 11T would sit a bit more securely on the splines, which would alleviate my worries about stripping the splines. The filed surface doesn't look very pretty so I will try to clean it up a bit tomorrow as well. That being said, the "steps" weren't very thick to begin with (2mm?), so I needed at least 1mm left to push against the largest cog holder.

Now the 11 DA cassette is fully installed on the freehub body, but the lock ring is awefully close to the overlock nut, so I was worried the lock ring or the chain in the 11T would touch the dropout. Fortunately the right dropout is slightly curved at the opening, in a way that the lockring won't touch the dropout. I wonder if this will be true for my ti frame which has a dead flat dropout. On the largest cog, the chain seems to be quite a few mm's clear of the spokes, so no problem there whatsoever. On the smallest cog, the chain in 11T was also clear of the dropout by maybe 2mm.

A slight twist is that my carbon bike with DA9000 was stripped, so instead I put the wheel on my alu bike w/ Chorus. But no worries, shifting was flawless between the 9000 cassette and the 11sp Chorus drivetrain, even with the thicker Campy chain (I had tried Campy cassette on a 9000 drivetrain a couple of weeks ago and it was working fine as well).

So there you have it ---- 10 speed Zipp hub modified to take 11 speed DA 9000 cassette running with an otherwise 11 speed Campy drivetrain.

I should do this stuff more often. LOL




skinnywellfed wrote:
elviento wrote:
Am i completely crazy?


Crazy like a FOX!

Just watch out for the chain clearance as you mentioned....and of course the derailleur when you shift to the last cog on the cassette. Let us know what happens.


Attachments:
Falco 010.JPG
Falco 010.JPG [ 147.07 KiB | Viewed 1256 times ]
Falco 012.jpg
Falco 012.jpg [ 152.57 KiB | Viewed 1256 times ]
Falco 9000 cass.jpg
Falco 9000 cass.jpg [ 134.46 KiB | Viewed 1256 times ]
Falco Alu Right.jpg
Falco Alu Right.jpg [ 150.72 KiB | Viewed 1256 times ]
Falco Alu Left.jpg
Falco Alu Left.jpg [ 153.54 KiB | Viewed 1256 times ]

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:29 am 
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Excellent work!

Too bad Zipp can't be bothered to offer a simple solution like that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:16 am 
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I'll toss it out there again - Zipp is owned by SRAM......my feeling is they'd rather get you to pony up for a new Zipp 11 spd wheelset or buy their SRAM 10 spd group than heaven forbid you buy the next generation of Shimano and get it to work while buying nothing (or nothing of much significance like a freehub body and some redishing by a local shop) from them.

:noidea:


Last edited by tommasini on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:18 am 
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elviento wrote:
OK, I tried it.


This is the best of what Forums were meant for. Members willing to hack away at their own kit and then report to the rest of the community. Good show!

And the added bonus; sounds as if you have accomplished some 'mixed product' compatibility research.
So are you saying you attempted;

Campy (11) spd right side shifter, Campy rear derailleur, Campy (11) spd chain
mated to a Shimano D Ace 9000 cassette?

and then you attempted;

Shimano D Ace 9000 right side shifter, 9000 rear derailleur, 9000 chain
mated to a Campy (11) spd cassette?

Have I got that right?


Last edited by skinnywellfed on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:34 am 
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tommasini wrote:
I'll toss it out there again - Zipp is owned by SRAM......my feeling is they'd rather get you to pony up for a new 11 spd wheelset or buy their SRAM 10 spd group than heaven forbid you buy the next generation of Shimano and get it to work while buying nothing (or nothing of much significance) from them. :noidea:



Mackers wrote:
Excellent work! Too bad Zipp can't be bothered to offer a simple solution like that.


uuuuuuhhhhh, the guys at my LBS stated that Zipp is already producing free hubs that can be retrofitted to existing wheels so you can run the D Ace 9000 (11)spd cassette. You won't have to buy a new wheelset. I don't have any Zipps. So what is the complaint for Zipp owners? I'm obviously missing something.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:37 am 
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Word I've heard several times is it only applies to 2012 model year Zipps.

If I'm wrong then good for them!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:40 am 
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yes. basically swapping wheels between a full 9000 bike and a full 11sp chorus bike. only needed a quick twist on the adjustment barrel. it was too late last night for an actual spin (3am) but turning cranks by hand seemed fine.

i suspect same brand chain as the cassette would be ideal, but in a race situation, if a spectator hands over a wheel of the other brand, you shouldnt hesitate.

Re Zipp, they redesign their hubs frequently so im not counting on them making adaptors for the 182 model. plus it would be another 150 bucks. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:07 am 
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elviento wrote:
yes. basically swapping wheels between a full 9000 bike and a full 11sp chorus bike. only needed a quick twist on the adjustment barrel. it was too late last night for an actual spin (3am) but turning cranks by hand seemed fine.

i suspect same brand chain as the cassette would be ideal, but in a race situation, if a spectator hands over a wheel of the other brand, you shouldnt hesitate.


So was the 'quick twist' due to the swapped wheel's cassette being in a slightly different starting location as compared to the wheel meant for the bike / drivetrain?

I would agree about running a mated chain with the respective cassette.
I have 9000 on the way and have never owned campy. You mentioned earlier, "the THICKER Campy chain".

I read that the roller width for the Shimano 9000 chain is identical to the 7900 (10)spd chain and that they achieved a narrower chain by making the side plates thinner.
And I 'thought' the Campy (11)spd chains were even more narrow than the D Ace 9000 chains.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:20 am 
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DA9k is wider by about 0.15mm, according to the two measured chains here. Your experience may vary, there is some room for manufacturer tolerances.
Looking at all that room between the spokes and the modified freehub/cassette combo on the Zipp 182 hub, it's no wonder the 188 hub was able to gain so much lateral support. I'm confident there is no room to play like that on their current hubs.
The biggest irk I have with the Zipp 11speed situation is that you have to send it back to have them do it. A side effect for us retailers is that if we have a Shimano11 freehub on a Zipp and need a Campy, it has to go back for that, too! Fortunately, their new axles happen to have a tighter fit through the bearings, so hub looseness complaints should stop right there.


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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:20 am 


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