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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:44 am 
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bura wrote:
If you want to spend around 60 bucks for 1 saved gr then the Gravitas SL are the way to go.


How the brakes actually brake being irrelevant?

Not that I necessarily disagree....

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:58 am 
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SadPanda wrote:
Long post, summary: Buyer beware dealing with Ted Ciamillo / Ciamillo Components / Zero Gravity

Hi guys,

I’m very sorry to be posting this. This is a warning to all to use caution in your dealings. After being a Zero Gravity user and fan for a long time I am disappointed to have been lied to repeatedly and ultimately screwed out of the money I paid for components over 18 months ago.

I fully documented the whole experience so if mods need to see proof that’s no problem. But to try to keep anyone else from experiencing this, here’s a summary of what led to this post:

April 2011 – purchased a pair of Gravitas brakes from Ted, paid by credit card

August 2011 – received and installed them. They were defective, sent photos/video, Ted confirmed they had a problem and asked me to send them back. Missed riding season, eventually received “fixed” pair later in the Fall.

April 1, 2012 – installed repaired set and the ‘solution’ didn’t work. Ted confirmed he would send a new set.

April 26, 2012 – I follow up with Ted because nothing received and was told “I am looking into it and getting you another set out on Monday.”

May 27, 2012 – With nothing received I request a refund on my credit card. (I asked for the price of goods and just decided to eat the shipping/duty/customs I had to pay twice so far to get the brakes.)

June 5, 2012 – no response, so emailed again. Ted replied “I’ll get a check out to you.”

June 28, 2012 – nothing received, so emailed again.

July 14, 2012 – no response, so emailed again.

July 24, 2012 – no response, so emailed again. “So is Zero Gravity just going to stiff me for five hundred bucks after sending me defective product, twice? Really disappointing…please respond.”

July 24, 2012 – Ted replies “Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.. I will get you a check this week.”
After this point I started calling Ted and we spoke multiple times. He was always friendly and apologetic and said he’d take care of it right away.

Sep 7, 2012 – Ted tells me a check was sent right after Labor Day via USPS flat rate mail and to give it a few days, says he’s confident it was actually sent. Never arrives.

I continued calling him; he’s offered to refund by PayPal several times. But it never comes and every time I call it’s more Kristy was supposed to do that, oh we have money in the account now it will go, I’ll take care of that right away, I’ll get Kristy to do it tonight, etc.

I spoke with Ted two weeks ago and told him that I just didn’t believe him anymore and would stop calling him, and let him know how disappointed I was at the repeated lies. He said he’d take care of it by PayPal that day and of course nothing happened.

The end.

Ted and/or any Zero Gravity representatives that read this, if you want to make amends let me know. To everyone else I will post an update if I ever receive anything.


Notice first post. This person also posted over at Slowtwitch and the members trashed this guy. He does have the option of using his credit card company to resolve the issue and admitted this on Slowtwitch it was true. So he's posting without taking all measures to resolve his issues.

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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:58 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:39 pm 
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Juan, should you also state that there is a conflict of interest on your posts supporting Ciamillo?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Trashing? Here is the "trashing" on slowtwitch.

Runless

Dec 30, 12 12:30

Post #9 of 11 (210 views)

Re: New cranks by Ciamillo. [SadPanda] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
Hey Panda

Feel free to review forum rules and then delete your post:

"WHAT CAN'T I POST HERE? We are especially cranky about trial-by-internet. Do not register to post on this forum only to have your first post be a complaint against a company doing business in the sport of triathlon. Do not lodge a complaint against a named entity unless you yourself are willing to be identifiable, that is, no anonymous rants. Do not EVER say somebody's product is unsafe unless you have rock-solid demonstrable proof. This is as much for your benefit as anyone's (we'd prefer your hot temper doesn't result in a lawsuit a manufacturer lodges against you). Do not accuse anyone of taking performance enhancing drugs."

----------------------

jackmott

Dec 30, 12 12:31

Post #10 of 11 (208 views)

Re: New cranks by Ciamillo. [SadPanda] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
You know you can call your credit card company and have them undo the charge right?

-----------------------

SadPanda

Dec 30, 12 12:35

Post #11 of 11 (194 views)

Re: New cranks by Ciamillo. [jackmott] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
@Runless - I am an ex-triathlete so won't be posting regularly obviously but my intent was not just to gripe. The company is currently requesting prepayments for new components and I feel it's in the community's interests to warn them of my experience. I have offered to provide any documentation required to the mods. If the mods feel the post is inappropriate I will abide by their decision.

@jackmott - I was not aware of that given the time frame involved but I will look into it, thank-you for the advice.


(This post was edited by SadPanda on Dec 30, 12 12:36)


Trashing? :noidea:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Wow, some vicious attacks right there :)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:55 pm 
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It has all been covered in a few other threads, 2 have been locked, but there is one one on brakes that pretty well covers this stuff. I don't think this thread was intended for the same thing. Do a search and you can find the other one.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:27 pm 
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@SadPanda, wouldn't it make more sense to post your experiences in the Cycle Chat section in a separate thread. I would still read it, but when I read this thread I just want to look at some nice brakes. :D

Juanmoretime wrote:
This person also posted over at Slowtwitch and the members trashed this guy. He does have the option of using his credit card company to resolve the issue and admitted this on Slowtwitch it was true. So he's posting without taking all measures to resolve his issues.


Juan, to be fair to the guy, assuming that what he's posted is all true, surely he has the right to post his experience? Ok, he's hasn't done everything possible to rectify the situation but surely you could understand why he might be a little upset at this point? I don't know who is at fault in that situation and it's not really any of my business, but assuming that his post is factual, I think that it's fair enough for him to post it. I think that readers should also bear in mind that for every one bad post there could be hundreds of happy customers riding around with Ciamillo brakes.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:13 am 
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Hi all,

Please note that I contacted a moderator for the ok, and received approval, prior to posting on this site. (I did not do the same at SlowTwitch. Those are the only two places I posted.)

My email is not intending to 'trash' or slag anyone. I have had previous dealings with Ted and Zero Gravity including on a business to business level. He seems like a genuinely good guy, I like his products, and think his creativity and drive are very impressive. I'm not however impressed with how this situation ended up and don't think my posting is out of line when the company is requesting/accepting deposits for products that aren't in production yet if this is what can result.

I will pursue the credit card avenue and appreciated the recommendation though I suspect getting credit for a 18+ month old transaction will be tough. (I'm not sure on this point, I didn't realize it was an option prior to it being suggested.) I also don't think the default should be to ask the credit card company to cover the problem when the issue is clearly between myself and Ciamillo Components.

To further defend myself on the statement that I didn't try everything I could I request you review the timeline of events I presented and ask how many months / emails / phone calls are required.

I wish the best for Ted and Zero Gravity in the future but obviously something is not working right at present if this situation can develop and I would feel bad if this happened to others as a result of me not coming forward.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:11 pm 
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stevec1975 wrote:
Juan, should you also state that there is a conflict of interest on your posts supporting Ciamillo?


While this is off topic but I do want to address some comments and opinions that have been expressed here. While the SadPanda may have cleared his/her posting thru one of the moderators it was not me and I was only commenting about the thread at slowtwich and nothing more. I did not censor his comments by removing the thread, locking it or removing his/her postings. FWIW, there are a few females on the site.

To stevec1975, I have supported Ciamillo and many other small companies too. I do not own part of Ted's company and other than the first cranks that I signed up for and received a free set of brakes I actually pay for what I desire since I have the same disease as everyone one else here. I do openly embrace those that challenge the what is current and try to make it better and lighter. My bike is always a work in progress. I like to see small companies like Ted succeed since I too work for a small company that competes which some very large companies in this country and still stay in business. Also like Ted has done small companies can usually address things much quicker than a large company where things have to be approved by a board or go back to the R & D department and take much longer than Ted has to release or fix their issues. Take Garmin as an example. They release a GPS device to only have issues and to have to do many firmware updates over the life of a product using the public as its feedback to get a device correct.

Notice I have also supported Fibre-lyte who posts here too and other than Stephen answering questions for me his company's products his company has benefited from a one time direct purchase and buying other products from one of their distributors.

I will admit I do get preferential treatment sometimes but I do spend my money with these companies and if you ask my wife she will tell you I spend way too much on all things bicycle.

Sorry about the rant. To those that have had issues I'm sorry and while not a part of what Weight Weenies is about I have acted on the behalf of many members that have contacted via the site or PM between bad sales or issues with companies that posted here. I did this because I believe in what this site is all about and if I can help I do. There are also a few here and at Slowtwitch I have sent free stuff that was laying around because they have needed something free of charge and me paying the shipping. Whenever I have done this I also tell the member to just do something for another member if and when you should get the opportunity to do something for someone.

Back to topic and to the original poster. Nice brakes!

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-This board and the world in general would be a much nicer place if everyone could just take themselves a little less seriously.
-Sticky Fingers John Rockefeller
-First one over the cliff wins!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:55 pm 
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I think people need to recognize that running small manufacturing businesses is incredibly challenging. Every time there's a small-scale operator selling stuff that pushes the limits people whine and complain: every single time. AX, Lightning, Camillo, Fibre-Lyte, etc. I think you need to expect some hiccups and if you're not ready for that than confine your business to large-scale companies like SRAM, Shimano, and Campy. But in doing so recognize they are unwilling to devote the attention and invest the same level of risk in their parts.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:11 pm 
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djconnel wrote:
I think people need to recognize that running small manufacturing businesses is incredibly challenging. Every time there's a small-scale operator selling stuff that pushes the limits people whine and complain: every single time. AX, Lightning, Camillo, Fibre-Lyte, etc. I think you need to expect some hiccups and if you're not ready for that than confine your business to large-scale companies like SRAM, Shimano, and Campy. But in doing so recognize they are unwilling to devote the attention and invest the same level of risk in their parts.


We need a separate topic for this. I've supported several small companies - fibre-lyte, xx-light, lightning, I even had a pair of the first ZG brakes, AX. I've had zero issues with fiber-lyte, xx-light actually went above and beyond for me and lightning has been good, save the time they wanted me to pay $15 for washers for my pedals (I made my own). In each of those cases I received stellar customer service.

AX on the other hand, aside from being slow, were rather arrogant (especially after Nils wasn't there) and "holier than thou". The next time I need a new saddle, I'll probably have someone make one for me (I've purchased from Berk as well- he's awesome) rather than support them. The others, I'll keep going back because their service has been stellar, so I don't necessarily think it's the size of the company.

But this is getting way OT. I still love the brakes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:44 pm 
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Juanmoretime wrote:
stevec1975 wrote:
Back to topic and to the original poster. Nice brakes!

Thank you :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:47 pm 
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mdeth1313 wrote:
djconnel wrote:
I still love the brakes.

Thank you :thumbup: I have had excellent support from Ted that's why this is my 4th set of Brakes I have bought from him :beerchug:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:26 am 
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djconnel wrote:
I think people need to recognize that running small manufacturing businesses is incredibly challenging. Every time there's a small-scale operator selling stuff that pushes the limits people whine and complain: every single time. AX, Lightning, Camillo, Fibre-Lyte, etc. I think you need to expect some hiccups and if you're not ready for that than confine your business to large-scale companies like SRAM, Shimano, and Campy. But in doing so recognize they are unwilling to devote the attention and invest the same level of risk in their parts.


I agree with your sentiment entirely, but I wouldn't like riders to think that they get any less 'hiccups' with large scale manufacturers, I think that we just hear less about it as most large scale brand complaints go through the local bike shop, not on forums such as this. Typical examples would be no availability (in the UK at least) for replacement carbon rear derailleur plates from a well known major brand. Fortunately, we supply our own versions of those and needless to say, we've sold quite a few. Also, frames. We do quite a number of frame repairs and a percentage of those are manufacturing faults (in our opinion) where the manufacturer has denied the warranty, or they are not the first owner.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know who the UK distributor is for Ciamillo brakes? According to the Ciamillo website it's Otago cyclesport but the link doesn't seem to be working?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:38 am 
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Brutal.


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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:38 am 


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