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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:51 am 
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Posts: 34
Hey guys, I've got a question about a set of wheels I plan to have built. I've been wading through this thread trying to narrow down my options, but without starting from the very beginning it's hard to tell what information may be out-dated. I only say this as I have tried to answer my questions without resorting to rehashing a topic which has been covered previously.

I'm wanting to build a set of (haha) lightweight climbing clinchers that are as stiff as possible. Lightweight is most important, cost second, stiffness third; so I would like them as stiff as possible given the weight. I'd like to shoot for the 1400g range, and maybe $400-$500. This would be my racing wheel set so they don't really have to stand up to everyday training use... although I'm sure I will whip them out our local version of Tuesday Night Worlds from time to time.

As background, I weigh roughly 70-72kg (155-160lb) at all times. I enjoy and do best at explosive efforts on steepish grades. I would say 90% of the time I ride on roads that are fairly well maintained, so my roads don't often damage my wheel sets.

I owned an A23 build before and was fairly impressed with them, but have heard good things about the Stan's 340/400's and would like to choose between these three (at this point I'm leaning toward the 340's). Obviously, I'd like to go with Sapim spokes, but are there any comparable and lower priced alternatives (possibly the Laser's instead of CX or DTSwiss)?

The only place I really don't know where to go is the hubs and hole count. There are the old standby's of something like Ultegra or DA, but it seems there are lots of options that are more affordable and offer great performance. I'm not a terribly heavy guy, but at the same time don't want to sacrifice much in the way of durability if I can help it. Either way, thanks for help!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:05 am 
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
@DividedVolta:

I would recommend Kinlin XR-200 or Stans ZTR Alpha 340 rims laced 24/28 to BHS SL218 and SLF71 hubs with CX-Ray spokes. This set should be sub 1300g when built with alloy nipples and will definetley fit your budget if you opt for the XR-200 rim.

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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:05 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:26 am 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I was about the suggest tsimilar. My hub recomendation though is for Novatec A291 SB ( or A291 SB-SL) and F482 SB (or F482 SB-SL) flange spacing of these is better than the BHS hubs. They do weigh a little bit more.

My Kinlin XR-200 build with 28F/28R using A291 SB and F482 SB hubs and sapim laser spokes all round/alloy nipples wirgh in at 1362g. It is stiff enough for my 79 kg and power I produce. It is also cheap. If cost is important then don't use the Stans alpaha rim. The novatec hubs are cheap also.

If I had a 24H XR-200 rim up front and used the Novatec A291 SB-SL and F482 SB-SL hubs with the same spokes and nipples then the weight would have been 1307g.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:13 am 
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
bm0p700f, I'm going to politely disagree with you.

The flange spacings of the SLF71 are much wider than the Novatec hubs, isn't wider better?

If DividedVolta is using Campy, the flange spacings on the SL218 are similar.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:39 pm 
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First, thanks for the advice so far! I appreciate it all!

I forgot to mention I use Shimano, and can't really imagine myself getting Campy for the foreseeable future.
Just for my own clarity, when you guys mention two hubs I'm assuming you are listing front hub first/back second? Seems obvious but I just wanted to be sure.

The weight listings you guys threw in are great; really happy to have an idea of what weight I'll be looking at.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
"isn't wider better"

it makes for a laterally stiffer wheel. That make the wheel stronger. But the front wheel is already laterally stiffer than the rear because it's not dished to clear the cassette. The wide BHS front hub is nice and does make a wheel that feels a little stiffer but the less stiff wheel from a narrower hub like the BHS UL66, while feeling a little different, does not negatively impact handling.

Of course one could use the BHS wide front and the Novatech rear.. get them in black and they'll almost match.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Are there any reliability issues with the -SL Novatec hubs? Is it really worth saving the ~30g between the front/rear for the extra money? I wouldn't mind throwing out a few more bucks, but if it'll be at a noticeable reliability hit I don't think that's worth it.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:30 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I was refering to the rear hub flange spacing but assumed that that you all knwew that! IO should have been clearer.

As Eric said front wheels are stiff enough that small differences in flange spacings betwen various hubs make little difference in reality. I think the reliability of these novatec SB series hubs is fine. I would however not choose a hub just because it is 30g lighter for the pair. Choose it for other reason, ease of supply of spares like freehub bodies or other reasons. 30g is not going to be something you notice especially in the hub.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:41 pm 
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Thanks for the input bm0, in retrospect you're quite right. 30g of weight spread out over two hubs isn't going to be noticeable. I looked over the Novatec hubs and liked what I saw. My final questions (if you can't tell I barely understand what's going on) are: what length spokes do the hub/rims you recommend and are there any particular nipples that work well or I should look for? Or particular shape?

Again, I appreciate all the input. It's been fun looking up all these bits and pieces and I don't think I could've managed it on my own.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:13 am 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
for a 28H rear 2x I think I used 182mm DS and 186mm NDS. For a 24 spoke front 2x use 291mm. For a 28 spoke 2x front I used 289mm. As for spoke for my 79 kg and limited power output I have sapim lasers all round with alloy nipples.

You might notice a bit of flex depending how how much power/torque you can deliver but they should be durable enough.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:42 am 
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Posts: 117
Location: Berkeley, CA
After cracking my rear Farsports rim I've been acquiring parts for a new build for the last couple of months and I thought I would try something a little different this time around. The rims are 38mm deep and 23mm wide. Since we all like pictures here are all the parts that went into the build.
Alloy nipples:
Image
Nipple washers:
Image
16 hole C4 Front hub:
Image
24 hole Bitex rear hub reused from the broken wheel:
Image
32 Mac Aero 424 spokes and 4 CX-rays I had that happened to be the right size:
Image
20 hole rim:
Image
16 hole rim:
Image
The spoke bed on these rims a quite thick:
Image


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:28 am
Posts: 117
Location: Berkeley, CA
And the finished product. The rims were claimed to be 315g each, but obviously they both came in a bit over weight, the claimed ERD was a bit off as well. None the less the wheel set came out to be 1166g which isn't bad for the small amount that was invested. The front is 16 spokes radially laced and the rear is 20 spokes, 12 DS in sort of a crows foot pattern and 8 NDS 1x. All spokes on the rear are laced heads in to help with the less than brilliant flange spacing of the Bitex hub. NDS tension is pretty good and the rear built up well. I'll be interested to get them out on the road once the wind stops howling and the rain ceased to pour down. They are hanging with their first coat of glue drying now. :D Forgive the linoleum flooring.
Front wheel:
Image
Image
Rear wheel:
Image
Image
And the set:
Image
Image


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:55 am 
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Location: Slovenia---that forest land
Intresting lacing pattern

If spokes will be round at the point of crossing? will it work

are spoke calculation for DS 3 xcross and radial?

Thanks for shareing

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:42 pm 
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^^ what rims did you use?


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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:42 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:27 pm
Posts: 1
Quick Question for the pros:

Do you lace coaster brake hubs as per Shimanos disc brake instructions?? ie drive side outside spokes backwards, disc brake side outside spokes forwards???

I'm about to lace a SRAM Automatix 36H 2 speed IGH with coaster brake in the next few days. Will be doing it 3X to a Mavic A319 700c.

Can't find much info online or does it not matter??


Thanks


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