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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:04 am 
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Hey guys - I'd like some aero wheel input. I've never done TTs but recently bought a Di2 Speed Concept. I live in Colorado so race mostly crits with some road races. I bought the TT bike mostly for stage race and omnium use, and want to buy a wheelset (and possibly a disc) for the TT bike that I can get some road bike use from as well. TTs here do have hills so I think wheel weight matters to an extent. Wind can also be an issue. I am 145 pounds and have rep for being a sprinter. My daily hoops are Edge clinchers but tubular wheelsets I own include Lightweight Standards, Zipp 303s, and 995 gram Enve 45s for hilly crits/road races. Nothing really aero. The SC came with Hed Jet 6 clinchers but thinking I will sell those. Too heavy for me and I prefer tubs for racing.

So I need some aero wheels. Through team sponsorships I can get Mavic wheels at like 45% off retail and Zipp at 35-40% off . I can also pick up a used Zipp Super 9 disc for around a grand (USD). I originally thought I'd get a Lightweight disc but have decided spending over 2K on a disc for the limited use it would get is not worth it and I am therefore strongly considering a used Super 9. The Mavic Comete is also an option considering the big discount, but it is on the heavier side.

So my deep wheel options include Mavics (CXR 80 I guess), 808 FC, Enve 6.7, Enve 8.9, and possibly Bonts. Like I said, I want to use this wheelset on my road bike when the conditions merit, not just the TT bike. User reviews on the Mavic deep wheels are limited, so despite the impressive wind tunnel results I don't know how they'd handle in a road race or crit. I know the Bonts also do well in the wind tunnel but I don't know much more than that about them. Because I know less about the Mavics and Bonts, the 808s and Enves currently sit the highest on my list. I know guys that own the 808s and the rear often gets used on the road bike but the front almost never. I cannot find any road bike useage/handling reviews for the Enve 8.9s but I assume they would be more aero than the 6.7 for use on the TT bike, just don't know how much more aero. I know the 6.7s, although not as light as my mid depth wheels, could make for a nice road racing wheelset - but are they aero enough for TTs? Oh, and the LW Fernweg, due to the lighter weight and aero properties, would be my top pick if someone could source these to me for less than 4K, but I do not currently have a source for discounts on LWs.

OK, I've babbled enough! Tell me what to get! :mrgreen: Do I get a disc? And which deep wheels? Or do I just get a disc and use one of my other wheels for a front on the TT rig? Too many options! :beerchug:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:14 am 
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Have I read correctly, you're potentially looking to use a disk in road racing?

There are many, many threads on here for deep wheel recommendations. I personally have some 6.7's for road and use the 60mm front on my TT bike (where I always run a disk).

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:36 am 
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No. Disc w/b for TT bike only. With no discounts available I'd probably get some Enves built up with Tune or Alchemy hubs, but hefty Mavic and Zipp discounts complicate decision. I am also not sure how much more aero the enve 6.7s are then my current wheels.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:48 am 
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So this is a thread about deep section wheels that the front can double for TT use?

Apologies, your OP takes a bit of deciphering...

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:35 am 
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Yeah, or skip the disc altogether and just use deep wheelset on the TT bike. With my expected limited TT use, that's part of my undecidedness. Enve claims their 8.9s are more aero than some discs and only 5% less aero than the most aero discs. Whatever that means. So I'm looking for some user input. Maybe the 8.9s would be adequate for TT use but the wheelset is not practical for road/crit use and I'd be better off with a disc and 808s or 6.7s. I don't want to buy a deep wheelset that would be impractical for use on the road bike. Or maybe I should just get a disc if one of my current front wheels would be aero enough for the TT bike? That would save me some cash. I've never had a TT bike so that's the kind of input I'm looking for. And I can't find much for user reviews on the 8.9s or newer Mavics. thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:53 am 
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These stats might help your decision,

http://www.zipp.com/about/wheel_count.php

If it was me, i'd go the zipp rear disc, and a 808 front (considering you already have 303's handy for if it's windy).


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:37 am 
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What metal said! The fastest wheel combination I have is a disc and a Zipp 808 up front. Handling with a disc in the back is not a problem. My 808 is not a Firecrest since Firecrest are too wide for my fork. Make sure that it will work with your fork too.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:14 pm 
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I'd be inclined to go with the Mavics, first. If later down the line you want a disc, then get that too.

I'd go Mavics because of the discount, the compelling data and Mavic has a pretty solid track record of making reliable products.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:13 pm 
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If absolute all out speed is the priority, the Super 9/808 is the way to go.

However, if mixed TT and road use is desired then a pair of 808s would be a better bet. As has been said, the 303 can be pressed into service for super windy days.

I think part of the reason you don't see many 808 pairs in road races is down to aesthetics/handling. In non time trial situations, an 808, 404 combo is arguably a better all round mix of weight, aero, all conditions usability and aesthetics.

It really depends on where your priorities lie.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Thanks for the input. My initial plan after getting the TT bike was to get a Super 9 disc and complete set of FC 808 tubs. These seem to be the most widely used wheels on the SC by pros. Of course that could be due to Zipp giving them the wheels as many also use the LW disc (guys like Contador, Lance, I think). Wiggins also used an unmarked LW disc this past season, as did the entire Radioshack team from what I've been told. Then our team got the Mavic deal and I started researching other options from Enve, Bont, etc and I've just overwhelmed and confused myself with the various options. I love Lightweights but the price tag is prohibitive. I probably should just narrow it down to the Zipps and Mavics considering the pricing available.

I know guys that love the 808FC for use on the rear for road/crit racing but they all complain about the front being unstable in winds, not stiff enough, and just porky so for these reasons they run a 404. I'm not buying a 404 too but I do have the 303s. The 2012 808 FC reportedly has some sort of increase in stiffness over the 2011 FC for what that's worth.

Regarding the Mavics, the CCUs are a fantastic road racing wheelset but not sure they hold the aero candle. I understand that award goes to the CXR 80 but I don't have a set to demo and don't know anyone with first hand experience. So don't know how they would serve for double duty on the road bike. I did find one demo review that said they were not good in the wind or rain. Also don't know anyone that's used the Comete disc. So I am just lacking sufficient info to pull the trigger on Mavics and any first hand use of these would be helpful.

Thanks again for the input.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:50 pm 
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My 2 cents.....One reason (and there are others) you won't see a lot of 80's deep wheels in road races is the added weight overall and sluggishness when speed changes happen in pack situations. Unless you plan to pull the pack around or be in long breakaways, I'd give first choice to a 50's deep set of wheels. They will get up to speed better, be about 1/2 pound lighter, more stable in changing cross wind, etc.

This chart is pre-firecrest, but it gives some idea what you get by using an 80's deep rear with a 50's front - a pretty negligable 1 watt saved......and if you are road racing you've added a 1/4 pound to the bike at the outer circumference of one wheel. http://www.spinlitecycling.com/ZippAeroEdgeFlyer.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:17 pm 
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ProudDaddy wrote:
TTs here do have hills so I think wheel weight matters to an extent. Wind can also be an issue.


You already have great road racing wheels, so let's focus on the TT...

Enve 8.9 with Alchemy hubs would be my pick. Low drag and low cross wind issues. If you aren't under UCI rules you can put a cover on to make a rear disc, but I wouldn't bother.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:31 am 
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tommasini wrote:
This chart is pre-firecrest, but it gives some idea what you get by using an 80's deep rear with a 50's front - a pretty negligable 1 watt saved......and if you are road racing you've added a 1/4 pound to the bike at the outer circumference of one wheel. http://www.spinlitecycling.com/ZippAeroEdgeFlyer.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's a sweet table, handn't seen that before. Would be cool for Zipp to update that with their Firecrest line-up and include the Super 9.
WMW wrote:
Enve 8.9 with Alchemy hubs would be my pick.
Thanks, I'll look into cost for this set-up but that may be a grand more or near double my cost for 808s, or in other words cost of 808s + disc = cost of Enve 8.9s. I like Enve, but that's a tuff pill to swallow. I do have Alchemy hubs laced to Edge 38 clinchers and Enve 45 tubs. Both sweet wheelsets - maybe I should just call up Enve for a sponsorship! Unfortunately, their home built 8.9s only come with DT 240s, which would not be my 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or ... choice of hubs.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:40 am 
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You mean, like this:
http://www.zipp.com/_media/pdfs/support ... yer_11.pdf


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:18 am 
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Zipp said 808 Firecrest is faster than most disks out there. For flexibility I'd go for 808 rear and a 404 front. You can use that exact combo on a road race that doesn't see too many hills.

But as said above you have really good rr wheels already so would be better to get a specific set for TT only.


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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:18 am 


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