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 Post subject: Seat Tuning 101
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Ok, so I decided after reading thru a couple of posts from some well respected members here to take the plung and mod my SLR XP saddle by stripping it and swapping the rails. I sent out a couple of emails with questions to these guys who will remain nameless. I don't want to throw their names out there as I don't want my final product to reflect on their superior and professional skill level or the products that have put out and posted up on here for us. I will simply say thank you for all their help and guidence and that I could not and would not have done this with out them.

So first off, I had an old Merek full carbon saddle that I bought about 3 yrs ago for $75. I bought it for my mtb but the shape of it (pointed nose and tail) would either bang into my inner thighs or catch on my shorts so I basically just threw it in a box and let it sit. I also had a SLR XP w/ vanox rails. The XP if you don't know is the same shape and base as the nicer SLR's but has heavier rails and double the amount of padding. Weight on this saddle is 186g. The Merek on the other hand weighed 112g.

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So here is my "how-to" on modding my SLR saddle. But first, safety! Make sure you have the following and use them!
1. eye protection
2. face mask (preferrably a respirator with changeable cartridges)
3. well vented area to do the work

I started with the SLR saddle by removing the leather and padding. I used a pair of needle nose pliers to pull the leather from the lower edges of the saddle and then pulled it the rest of the way off using my hands. You want to try to keep the leather and the padding together as you pull it off. Trust me, it is easier to get them off together than trying to remove the padding by itself. Take your time as it will save you some frustration down the road.

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At this point you can see that we already dropped a fair amount of weight but there is some clean up to do. I used Goof Off to remove the remaining adhesive and padding.

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I then moved on to the removal of the rails from the SLR. In this particular case, the rails were not bonded into the little pockets/mounting points. I was able to simply cut the rails and pull them out by hand with little to no effort. I used a Dremil with a cutting wheel to do this.

Now it was time to work on the Merek saddle. I used the same cutting wheel and cut out the existing carbon rails. Be careful not to cut the actual rails while doing this. Also make sure you wear your eye protection and face mask as the dust will be flying and that crap can cause lung cancer! Once the rails were out I deviated from the original plan. Initially we thought the rails on the SLR would be bonded to the saddle base which would require trimming those mounting points/pockets off and then glueing the new rails in place and later reinforcing them with carbon fiber. But since the pockets were in tact, the plan was to try to reuse those same mounting points and simply epoxy the rails in place.

At this point, I spent some time test fitting, sanding things down a little more, test fitting, repeat... finally I got them to fit but noticed that I had a small crack in the rail up at the nose where it makes a bend.

It's epoxy time! Make sure you have cleaned and dried the saddle and rails to be rid of all dust and moisture. You have to work quick as the epoxy sets pretty fast. I mixed up the epoxy as per directions and put some in each of the mounting pockets. I then put some on each of the rail portions that would insert into the saddle and then put the rail in place. I let it sit for a few minutes then installed an old seat post to help keep everything in alighnment. This probably isn't needed but I didn't want anything to shift around on me because I didn't try to brace it. As per the directions, the epoxy reaches full cure in 15-24 hours. So, I put it in a warm place (mechanical room in the basement) and left it there. This morning, the epoxy is ever so slightly tacky so I removed the seat post and left it sitting there. I probably won't have a chance to ride it until Saturday afternoon at best so cure time shouldn't be an issue.

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I still have some cleaning up to do at this point. I will continue to work on cleaning up the bottom edges of the saddle and remove the remaining leather/adhesive crap as well as try to sand down/clean up the epoxy a tad. But in all reality, it's on the bottom of the saddle that I will be sitting on and can't see anyway. I might consider sanding it all down to get out any impreffections and clear coating it but I'm not too stressed at this point (that only adds weight :D ).

I do have a bit of a back up plan in the event that the epoxy doesn't hold or a rail breaks. Initially I thought I would cut a slot out of the top to basically turn it into the flow version of the saddle but I will put some miles on it first to make sure everything will hold up. If it all works out w/ no problems then I'll cut the slot. If something goes wrong, then I can pack it up along with my carbon post and send it to Berk to let him make an official combo w/ it. For him to do that though, he would need to have a solid saddle shell to bond to so having the slot in it wouldn't allow for that. So for now, no slot. I am guessing that a slot could knock out another 10g or so (if that).

At this point I'm excited that things worked out and am looking forward to seeing how it rides. So, I spent a total of $127 if you consider what I paid for the seats (event though I have had them for a while) and the epoxy. I shaved 73g for a new total of 113g for the completed saddle. Not the lightest but I spent less money and have a seat that is lighter than a SLR Carbonio. Most importantly I can say that I did it myself! PRICELESS

So here it is finished (as of this morning-still have to do the clean up work on it)

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Sorry for the glare on the scale. Reads 113g Nice drop from the original 186g!

So if anyone is thinking about wanting a solid shell saddle feel comfident that it can be done. You don't even have to swap the rails if you don't want to. The SLR XP w/ vanox rails and no leather/padding weighed in at 147g which isn't that bad on its own. But if you happen to have some carbon rails sitting around and think you want to give it a shot, I say go for it.

It was a great experience and took me about 2.5 hours to do. Many thanks to the fellas that gave me some pointers and direction. Sorry if it isn't as beautiful as some of their work but it was my first time trying something like this and overall I'm pretty happy with the results.

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09 Pinella w/ Record 10spd
http://1spd.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:19 pm
Posts: 268
Location: Denmark
nice work! are the carbon rails in one piece or or 2 single rails? where do you start to mount first? tail or nose? and last is it hard? do you need to apply a lot of force? I'm thinking maybe not all rails are the same lenght or width but I could be wrong can anyone confirm?


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:11 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Thanks,
I wouldn't say that the project was difficult at all. You just hve to take your time which is something I tend to struggle with personally.

1. The rails are actually all one piece. Lets say it starts on one side at the back, travels to the front, makes a 180 degree bend and heads back to the back.
2. I actually inserted the front first. I trimmed the front down a little bit to allow it to slip in (trimmed a little too far and that is how I got a crack in the rail). I also trimmed the back end of the rails down a tad to. I had to try to slightly flex the saddle in one hand against my stomach while trying to pop the rail itself into place. You can't push too hard or something will crack. They are in their tight enough that they don't wiggle around but the void is filled with epoxy so hopefully this will hold it together. This is basically how the Merek saddle was made to start with.
3. Again, not too hard as far as doing the project but a little tricky getting the rails milled down and shortened to fit. A different seat might work differently but in my case, it was pretty close to a perfect fit barring the milling/sanding work. As far as force, I trimmed the pieces down enough so I wouldn't have to put too much force on anything when trying to insert them but enough to hold them in place if you will.

Hope that helps some.

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09 Pinella w/ Record 10spd
http://1spd.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:23 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 1222
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Nice work as well. I also use a XP saddle but I can't imagine being able to ride it without the padding. After 70 miles my bum is beinging to hurt a little bit. So this mod is not something I will copy for the sake of my bum.

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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:06 pm
Posts: 1
Nice DIY job, Chris!


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:19 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:06 am
Posts: 507
Great thinking!

"noticed that I had a small crack in the rail up at the nose where it makes a bend." - crack, bend...bad! It is much better that it happened at the front rather than the back. Inspect regularly! If you do not do a lot of riding on the nose, you might be alright.


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Well, I very rarely ride on the nose. Just isn't comfy to me. Pretty much stay on the mid/rear. Got 20 miles on it today and all went well. Nothng bad to report so I am quite pleased so far!

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09 Pinella w/ Record 10spd
http://1spd.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:48 am
Posts: 385
Dont worry about it, i rode one with a chunk missing from the carbon rail (previous owner isnt the brightest bulb) and it worked fine until i retired it for a romin. Carbon is alot stronger than we take it for, itll be sweet as!

Kudos on the weight savings by the way! :beerchug:

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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Another 25 miles on it and everything is great. Even better, my new seat post and skewers showed up today. Skewers will drop 71g over the Campy's and the post while heavier than the KCNC that is currently in place will be as light if not less once cut down. Gotta do some sanding on the post tonight to get the logo's off it (its a Hylix) but fortunately the logos are painted on top of the top coat so this should be pretty simple really. I can't say that cutting down a seat post really qualifies as tuning at this point but it is reducing weight.

I noticed that the clamp portion of the post (just like a KCNC, Extralight...) it is triple thick. They put a section section of tubing over the outside of the head and then an aluminum insert on the inside. I would love the mill out the inside aluminum section bout would need some sort of lathe or drill press to do this. I have neither! I'm sure that alone would knock out a good 10g! I guess an air tool with a grinding bit would do the trick but man that would take days and wouldn't have a consistent diameter in the end.

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http://1spd.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:48 am
Posts: 385
Dremel is a WW best friend 1spd... get one and a world of tuning opens up! hahaha

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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:18 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:46 pm
Posts: 154
has anyone stripped a specialized toupe??

I have one that is cracked on both sides that I'm going to strip the leather off. after that, i'll see if i can use some sort of glue to repair the cracks. just wanted to see if someone has a picture of a stripped toupe before i start - and an estimate of how much weight can be saved. i have the one with ti rails.


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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:46 pm
Posts: 154
well, i stripped off the leather/padding from my cracked toupe. anyone have a recommendation of how to repair the cracks? epoxy? would epoxy become brittle and crack overtime?

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 Post subject: Re: Seat Tuning 101
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:06 am 


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