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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:49 am 
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Why don't yall go to the bodybuilding forum? Great ways to get cut and get tha abz like other bros. And full of useful broscience.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:49 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:06 am 
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The zig zag diet is not the way to go. You need to find a balanced eating lifestyle . Diets don't work for the long time . Eat well, cut out the junk and have a treat now and again . Don't become obsessed about losing body fat . Be fit and healthy first and with a consistent well balanced life style you will get there. I just wonder if the images we see of every man having a six pack and built like a body builder are setting unrealistic images for the average chap to compete with. Pro athletes train 6 hours a day and some people are just a bit more lucky with there body type ...


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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:20 am 
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Location: Lenart, Slovenia EUROPE
Thats what they say too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POmuWCJ8FB0&feature=plcp


I guess the 1st or most important thing is to cut out the junk food, drink enough water, eat a lot of vegetables, enough fruits.... and of course train a lot.
And the body will cut out the fat by itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:42 am 
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Tapeworm wrote:
Why don't yall go to the bodybuilding forum? Great ways to get cut and get tha abz like other bros. And full of useful broscience.


Well, one could do that, but I see where you're going. In reality normal "diets" or weightloss plans won't work for endurance athletes, as we need a lot more carbs in our diet to actually perform on the bike - even in the offseason. I know plenty BB guys that keep the carbs to a minimum, and lose weight that way. IMO, and probably yours as well, this won't be the answer for an endurance athlete.

The reason I'm bringing this thread back up, is because science/math really isn't helping me at the moment. Everybody knows that if you're in a 500 calorie deficit every day throughout a week, you'll lose 500 grams. That's what science has taught us. But my theory is that our bodies and brains are not so straightforward. Let's look at an example.

Rider A needs 2500 calories a day to keep his weight. He wants to lose some of that weight, so he changes his diet so that he eats 500 calories less everyday. It's not like he has a lot excess weight, but there's maybe 3-4 kgs. The first month he loses 1000 grams, but then all of a sudden it stops. He even tries reducing his caloric intake further with 100 calories, but nothing happens. My theory, as well with others, is that the body/brain reacts to this deficit by holding on to the mass/fat that it actually has, and actually reduces the BMR. This makes it even harder for Rider A to lose more weight. How do we actually go about this problem?

One of the ideas I've come across from others is to eat more on certain days during the week, to let the body/brain now that it's actually getting the fuel it needs, and then after a couple of days going into a deficit to use science to lose weight. Will this work for endurance athletes? I have no idea - but it's an interesting idea. I'd like your take on it as well.

It makes sense for me at least. It's easy to draw parallels to fat loss by not eating fat. Logically if we don't eat fat, we lose the fat that we have. In reality by not eating fat the body holds on to it because we need fat. By eating the right fats we are actually more likely to lose fat.

But again, I'd love to hear your take on it all. I'd like to consider my diet as being very healthy compared to most standards. 4 grams of carbs per kg bodyweight, mostly coming from wholegrain foods, a decent amount of protein, good amount of veggies and healthy fats. Not so much white flour, white rice, white pasta etc. Seldomly a soda. More or less no alcohol.

I'm very conscious about my food, because I find it interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:45 am 
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artray wrote:
The zig zag diet is not the way to go. You need to find a balanced eating lifestyle . Diets don't work for the long time . Eat well, cut out the junk and have a treat now and again . Don't become obsessed about losing body fat . Be fit and healthy first and with a consistent well balanced life style you will get there. I just wonder if the images we see of every man having a six pack and built like a body builder are setting unrealistic images for the average chap to compete with. Pro athletes train 6 hours a day and some people are just a bit more lucky with there body type ...

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm all about eating healthy all the time, and diets are more or less a waste of time. But I just can't seem to get my head around why eating healthy, even with a caloric deficit doesn't mean a decent weightloss.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Location: Lenart, Slovenia EUROPE
About a year ago, I wanted to loose weight, more than aynthing... ;)

I did it like this:
Riding/training days (easy rides with HR 150 max)
breakfast: oatmeal, banana, raisins, almond milk, coconut nibs, cinnamon, dates.... about 1.000 kcal
lunch: rice + green salad, tomato, pepper, pumpkin seeds.... about 600 kcal
during the ride: 2 energy bars.... about 400 kcal
dinner: big salad with 100 gr. of tuna (sometimes 50 gr.).... about 300 kcal

"Resting"/non riding days
Paleo diet through whole day. A lot of vegetables, less fruits, lean meats like fish, chicken, turkey, eggs..

You can see that I was on a higb carb diet on riding days. And high protein diet on rest days. Body weight was getting down fast and body fat also very fast!
I admit, carbs were very tempting on rest days!

And one day, I suddenly decided I want to gain weight... because I looked like 8 year old school boy.

I hope this helps somebody to loose weight.

BTW, I am 176,5 cm tall and my goal then was 66-67 kg.
Edit: 66-67 kg with full glycogen!

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Last edited by majklnajt on Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:21 pm 
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If your power to weight ratio is less than 5 w/kgs then eat more, train harder and stop obsessing about inconsequential matters. Performance will lead to low body fat, not the other way round.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:57 pm 
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kermit , don't give yourself such a hard time . Go out and enjoy your sport . Keep things simple and be consistent and your body fat will come down. What works for one person may not work so well for another so I would stay away from any diet . Tapeworm :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:18 pm 
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Stressing out about not losing weight also can play a part in it. The body is strange like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:14 am 
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Tapeworm wrote:
If your power to weight ratio is less than 5 w/kgs then eat more, train harder and stop obsessing about inconsequential matters. Performance will lead to low body fat, not the other way round.


Not sure such a simplistic approach is valid for many people. As a masters athlete, my metabolism has definitely slowed down. So that even with a healthy mostly vegetarian diet (still have some fish) I now struggle to drop back to my race weight from only a few years ago. My training is already structured for quality not quantity due to the need for more rest between the hard sessions and time constraints. Just going out and training more isn’t a reasonable option…

I try to take as scientific approach to the rest of my training, why should diet be excluded?

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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:26 am 
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Diet should be done smart.

But here's a question. Are you training harder (quality) and eating "right" and seeing a significant rise in FTP and a reduction in body fat levels?

if not then answer could be to eat more.

I have seen plenty of cyclists get caught in the "losing weight paradox". They try to lose weight so they eat less, they can't train as hard, recover poorly, don't lose much weight, so they eat less, can't train as hard etc...

Then when they've killed their FTP they give up, eat "normal" and weight stacks on.

I prefer the path of train hard, eat well, recover, train harder, eat well etc. There maybe some net weight/fat gain. But I promise you someone with a 350watt FTP will lose weight easier than a 250watt FTP. Additional someone who has done the work to get to 350watts probably would have shed a bit on the way. Performance first and foremost.

If you get to 350watts and have a 20% body fat then yes, a bit of cutting will make you even better. Anything else is poser wankery. Like I said, if yall are worried about BF levels before you've got a decent engine you're all backwards.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:46 am 
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How about supplements?

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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:57 am 
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Tapeworm wrote:
Diet should be done smart.

But here's a question. Are you training harder (quality) and eating "right" and seeing a significant rise in FTP and a reduction in body fat levels?


Not on a carb or calorie reduced diet, just eating healthily. Very limited alcohol (glass of red once a month or less), limited sweets and simple sugars.

Training hard but not seeing a significant rise in FTP and definitely not a reduction in body fat levels. In regards to significant rise in FTP - expect there will be an age and physiology ceiling? My FTP is still going in the right direction, but not in huge gains from year to year...

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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:35 am 
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nrsnow wrote:
How about supplements?


Unless there is a quantified deficiency that cannot be corrected via diet then I advise no use of supplements.

Except Milo - because it tastes awesome.

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"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:24 am 
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
CarpetFibre wrote:
That intermittent fasting idea... There was a really good BBC Horizon documentary on that. It seems to really work for people and has good science, but I seriously doubt, like many people in this thread have said, that it'd be a really bad idea for cyclists like us. It seems to be more for the regular person who does very little exercise to stay healthier for longer throughout their life. Here's the link if you've got an hour or so to kill, I found it very interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSh6Ot8d ... D24FB93746
Follow part 2 and so on...


Yeah so, BBC pulled those videos off of youtube. However the Horizon episode in question is still available if you know where to search. :wink:
That said, I watched it. It is pretty good, I recommend others watching it as well. It is by no means complete, and much of the research being referred to is continuing and is noted as such. However I believe that the results thus far have been worthy of serious consideration.
I also spent a few hours reading up on the various links and information both on the 'web and also on the other thread which seems to be concurrently driving so much argument between persons.

I think I'm going to give the 5/2 method a shot along with my normal training routine. It certainly seems doable, even for endurance athletes.
Besides, I'm no longer 21 when I used to be able to 'eat anything'. Things have changed with the years. :lol:

To be honest, it isn't the weight loss part that drew my attention so much, it was the IGF-1 count and how it affects other aspects of aging (diseases, cancers, Alzheimer's, and so on)

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 Post subject: Re: Losing the last fat
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:24 am 


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