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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Stiffness depends mostly on three things- rim stiffness, hub flange spacing, number and cross section of spokes. Lacing pattern has some effect, especially if you're doing one that puts the heads all on the inside or outside of the flange.

Stiff enough depends on the rider. Not just rider weight but also riding style. For example I'm 145 lbs and regularly killed rear wheels until I started building them myself and learning what makes a stiff wheel. I do a lot of climbing, climb out of the saddle a lot, and rock the bike more than most when I do so. Steep climbs in low gears stresses the rear wheel as does my riding style.

Someone much heavier but who rides differently could stress his rear wheels less than I do.


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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:31 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 3311
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I have never built with Tune or alchemy hubs but the flange spaing on both hubs are as good as you are going to get.

What Eric says is very true. I amkind to wheels but a mate of mine is not he is a wheel destroyer but we are the same weight. The differene he is a power station.

As for rims.

The Kinlin XR-270 or 300 are both quite light at 445 and 465g repectively but due to the low price you can expect the quality of the braking surface and the spoke drilling to be not as good as the Veloity or H+ plus sons rims. Do not take that as the Kinlins are bad in fact the quality of the extrusion and join is very good as even tensions result. Both these rims in 24F and 28R would give you sufficient stiffness. Use laser or CX-ray spokes front and rear. The rear DS could be race spokes if stiffness is a concern due to you being a power house.

The A23 rim I would go for 28F and 32R for your weight for everyday riding. For event use only then 24F and 28R might be suitable but I still would not do it. I would build with Lasers fornt and rear NDS and Race spokes DS. Of course the rim is 23mm wide so you get the benefits of that.

The Archetype is a stiffer rim so 24F and 28R should be fine . There is nothing wrong with radial front (I prefer the look of 2x personally) and why not try 2x DS and 3x NDS on the rear. It gives slightly better tension balance (very slightly). I have normally used 2x both sides for 28H wheels but I have tried 3x. I find it difficult to tell the difference in the wheels when riding them. Zen Cyclery is going to say build the rear 3x and there is nothing wrong with that. I would build with lasers front and rear NDS and Race spokes DS. The archetype is 23mm wide so you get the benefits of that.

I would use any of the above rims with out hesistation but for 24F and 28R the Kinlin XR-300 would give the stiffest build laterally (even with laser or CX-ray spokes all round). The Archetypes would give the lightest with the same spoke count but not as stiff.

So it depends on howkind you are to wheels which will depend on how you ride and how powerful you are.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:49 pm
Posts: 138
Location: LA/OC, California
Contrary to what you said, I find the braking surface on kinlin rims superb. I agree with all your other points though.

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Strava


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 30
Thanks guys for the reply, i guess I'm leaning towards the Archetype for now, i like the wider rim and look of it :P and of course it being the lighter wheelset hopefully.

But i would love to find out more on the two hubset that i mention and if which of them would be a better choice.

I'm not so sure if I can consider myself as a powerhouse as i do not have a powermeter to see how much watts I'm putting out.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:08 am
Posts: 105
Location: North Carolina
They use RED.

todibble wrote:
Anyone know what color veloplugs fit the BHS 472w (Kinlin XC279) rim? Or if they'll fit...

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Posts: 1128
Location: Slovenia---that forest land
Hello

need help
wich tool is the best for removing debris from drilling rim holes?

debris are marked red circles (they are flattened becouse rim was built and nipple has tension)

Image

sorry i dont know correct expression - hope you understand

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My NEED FOR SPEED ride:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hhlPRud7oM


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:09 pm
Posts: 9
what you need is the right size of something like this:
http://comptools.co.uk/store/trend-snap ... 44537.html
A drill slightly bigger than the hole to countersink will also work


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Posts: 1128
Location: Slovenia---that forest land
this

http://ergottwheels.smugmug.com/Sports/ ... M&lb=1&s=A

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My NEED FOR SPEED ride:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hhlPRud7oM


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:27 pm
Posts: 64
Awesome thread ! I am trying to build up a 1500 grams aluminum clincher wheels. What rims, hubs, and spokes and nipples would anyone recommend. I am 130 to 135 pounds and on budget . :D


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 3311
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Well you an have lighter but for 1500g

How about Velocity Aero head 24F/28R with Novatec A291SB/F482SB hubs with Sapim laser spokes as alloy nipples (so long as you are not near salt) ~1435g

Kinlin XR-200's with the same hubs and spokes/nipples would be ~1340g with A291SB-SL/F482SB-SL hubs then weight would be ~1305g. If a 20 spoke front wheel is use then take another 20g of. But for the sake of 20g I'm not sure it is worth it.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:17 am
Posts: 18
how do i calculate what length spokes i need?

i'm not going to build them myself, but i have a good idea of rims/hubs

i want to use a 90mm hong fu rim with alchemy orc hub for rear, and hong fu 22mm rim with alchemy ELF hub for front

probably 24/28 hole (i'll be 150lbs race weight)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:21 am 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
spoc calc downloaded from sheldon brown site. Follow his directions on measuring hubs and rims. .

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Posts: 1244
Location: McCall, ID
boombaux wrote:
how do i calculate what length spokes i need?

i'm not going to build them myself, but i have a good idea of rims/hubs

i want to use a 90mm hong fu rim with alchemy orc hub for rear, and hong fu 22mm rim with alchemy ELF hub for front

probably 24/28 hole (i'll be 150lbs race weight)


You will need a few different measurements:

-ERD (Effective Rim Diameter)- The distance from one nipple bed to the exact opposite.
-Flange Diameter (hole to hole)- Keep in mind on the ELF this will be the same for both sides, but the ORC has different sized flanges from the drive side to non drive.
-Center to flange- Again for the ELF, this will be the same on both sides. The ORC will have a different center to flange distance on the drive and non drive.
-Hole count
-Lacing pattern.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:28 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:32 pm
Posts: 260
Location: S.E. TN
bm0p700f wrote:

Kinlin XR-200's with the same hubs and spokes/nipples would be ~1340g with A291SB-SL/F482SB-SL hubs then weight would be ~1305g. If a 20 spoke front wheel is use then take another 20g of. But for the sake of 20g I'm not sure it is worth it.


The more I look at these Novatec SLs, the better they look. I believed they would have compared very well had they been included in the FW hub shootouts. Clearly better than the DT240s or C4s ( expensive junk based on member reviews). Even ignoring price they seem like they could hold their own with most of the hubs tested, on paper anyway. Never read anything negative about their build quality or durability ( unlike Datis, in their $ range ).
I suppose at $150/set they're not glamorous or "boutique" enough or have the profit margin to included in the comparison.


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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:28 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:11 am 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 3311
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I find it hard sometimes to convince people who come into the shop that the Novatec hubs are a good high end option. They do not have a high end proice or a name that people accosiate with. Mention DT Swis 240's and there eye's light up. I think this is a shame as I know which hubs I would use my self and it's not the DT's...

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