>I wonder if yaw angle has an effect at 10 mph?
My 3.5 year old son can ride faster than that with his first bike.

I am contemplating a PedalForce RS2 [url]http://pedalforce.com/online/product_info.php?products_id=8420{2}189{22}151{3}15{10}48{11}49{16}98[/url] (XS) for my 9 year old son. He is ready for an adult-sized road bike and I want to get him on 700c wheels rather than 650c. I have looked all over for a road frame small enough to accomodate him, something between 42cm and 46cm depending on brand. The standover height of the RS2 is a little taller than I would have preferred, but the price is right and he should be able to ride it for several years.

Junior racing prohibits tubular tires so I am considering road tubeless for him. But I have some low-profile carbon clinchers that he can use as well. Basically, I am trying to move him up to a full-size bike while only having to purchase the frameset. He's already on a Dura Ace 7800 drivetrain that I had stripped off one of my older bikes. I have all the other parts we need readily available.

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TED ESSENFELD
Schoorl, Noord-Holland, Nederland
Bike Pics
English Custom Steel Internal di2
Litespeed Ghisallo

My 11 yrs old doughter wants a roadie. Still between the 24" and 700cc.

I saw an XXS Jamis Xenith Endura Comp complete frameset go for $350. on the Bay last week...

ST:374mm
TT:495mm

I thought this should make a fine race bike for a small kid, and pretty light start (probably around a kilo frame), budget friendly too.

A lot of Jamis for sale on the site. Don't know about service and reliability...

Louis

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Ted, I'm currently looking for a next bike for my 12 year old brother, and yes he's looking at something in 700c to upgrade from his currently 650c bike. The Pedal Force looks to be a bit on the big size - the top tube is long and the head tube is definitely too tall. You're probably looking for something around a 50cm top tube and <10cm head tube. Pro lite made a cuneo which was a great size and super light, but it seems I can't find them any more. Argon 18 make very small sizes for their bikes too...

I'd stick with clinchers. You can get a nice light wheelset if you go there and the choice of tyres is far greater. Get him some nice Veloflexes - they're very light and super smooth.

I found this http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Kinesis-Racelight-KR-210L-SPF-Womens-Youth-Road-Bike-Frame-and-Fork_26823.htm. It's an alloy frame which costs nearly as much as the PedalForce, but comes in much smaller sizes.

Searching the various European ebay sites yielded some smaller frames as well. None are as good a bargain as the PedalForce, but they all seem to be a better fit size wise.

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TED ESSENFELD
Schoorl, Noord-Holland, Nederland
Bike Pics
English Custom Steel Internal di2
Litespeed Ghisallo

If you still have a US adresss, you're better off with Ebay.com.

Instead of the Kinesis, here's a nice alu option from the Canadian distributor, pretty cheap to start a nice build for a child under 5' (it's still not a weight weenie, but would be in the same ballpark as the Kinesis):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Jamis-Vent ... 2a2641f1f9

Louis

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http://www.ccsalma.com

Unfortunately that Jamis looks too big at 48cm. I'm really leaning toward the Kinesis in either the 40cm or 43cm size. http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/technical/junior-female-fit/racelight-kr-210l It's not particularly light, but my choices are limited. I need to keep the effective top-tube length at or under 50cm and the seat tube (c-to-t) around 44cm or less. It also had a pretty good review. http://road.cc/content/review/16219-kinesis-kr210-youths-road-frame-fork

In addition to the PedalForce I found the Sab Alicudi http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FRSAALIC/sab_alicudi_carbon_frame_and_fork Similar size and price so it may be a wash. The PedalForce is lighter anyway.

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TED ESSENFELD
Schoorl, Noord-Holland, Nederland
Bike Pics
English Custom Steel Internal di2
Litespeed Ghisallo

I know your idea is pretty made, but the Jamis 48cm feminime geometry (good for small kids) is:

417 mm seat tube center bb to top tube
505 mm top tube effective lenght

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/ ... f_geo.html

Full carbon fork...headset included...

just saying...

Louis

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http://www.ccsalma.com

My mind isn't made up until I break out the credit card. Looking at that geometry makes a big difference. The standover height might be the only thing that worries me... it's still a bit taller than I would like. I am hoping to stay below 27 inches. Not as important on a road bike as on a mountain bike, but I don't want little man to crush the dangly bits getting off in a hurry.

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TED ESSENFELD
Schoorl, Noord-Holland, Nederland
Bike Pics
English Custom Steel Internal di2
Litespeed Ghisallo

why not the felt f95 jr?

650c wheels... not an option for us.

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TED ESSENFELD
Schoorl, Noord-Holland, Nederland
Bike Pics
English Custom Steel Internal di2
Litespeed Ghisallo

The Jamis has a way tall head tube at 120mm. His bars would be way too high for sure. Good call on the Kinesis - I saw those a while back and totally forgot about them! They're not light coming in at 1400g, but then I ride a 1400g frame built into a 5.7kg bike (with a 680g saddle/seatpost), so you can still make a light bike with good component choices. Not to mention I know you're no stranger to polishing and I bet you could lose ~150g getting rid of that thick powder coating.

I have 24 hours to make up my mind if I want Santa Claus to deliver the frame on time. I am leaning heavily toward the Kinesis frameset. All together it is about half a kilo heavier than a similarly priced carbon frameset, but it looks like the best fit. The components will move with him to a bigger frame as he grows, so I don't mind spending a little money to buy a lighter fork. So an all-carbon fork could be an option... as well as stripping and polishing the frame.

An industry friend just offered him an Ultegra di2 upgrade kit which is pretty freakin' awesome! I could never afford to buy him components like that. He was going to continue on an older DA 7800 drivetrain. So, perhaps, I can strip the frame and convert it for internal di2.

He is sponsored by O'Neal MX for BMX racing so gets pro-deal pricing on their full family of components and clothing. As a result he has access to 1400g Techlite Carbon 38mm clinchers for a lower price than I can find on ebay or build using chinese rims. Couple those with Kenda Kaliente tires (also a sponsor) and some superlight inner tubes and this could turn into a lightweight build after all.

But again, we're on a budget. Sponsor sourced components trump a few grams of weight savings. And there is no way we can turn down the Ultegra di2.

So I'll sleep on it tonight, and make my decision tomorrow. Unless some really awesome deal on an xxs carbon frame pops up between now and then, I think the Kinesis is going to win out.

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TED ESSENFELD
Schoorl, Noord-Holland, Nederland
Bike Pics
English Custom Steel Internal di2
Litespeed Ghisallo

And just found an Enve 2.0 fork with 40mm rake for under $50.00... this is making my decision easier.

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TED ESSENFELD
Schoorl, Noord-Holland, Nederland
Bike Pics
English Custom Steel Internal di2
Litespeed Ghisallo