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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:24 am 
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
Imaking20 wrote:
I was waiting for you :twisted:
What hubs are you running?
And I also recall the V2 rim coming in at ~380g. The wheels I referred to previously are V1 though.
As I said, I'd love to be convinced that I could run a set (I weigh 170-175) but that rear wheel flex is a hard image to shake for me.


HAHA! :twisted: It's on, my fellow fiend... I mean, friend! It's on.

Hubs: BHS UL66 on the front, 20h
BHS SL211 on the rear, 16:8 drilling, 24h

Perhaps under you there may be some question marks. For your friend (135lb masters guy) that you see the rims flexing, I'm not sure what that's all about.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:29 am 
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prendrefeu wrote:
Hubs: BHS UL66 on the front, 20h
BHS SL211 on the rear, 16:8 drilling, 24h

I don't mean to interrupt this conversation, but is this your actual build or a planned build? I read somewhere that a triplet lacing requires some sturdy rims, the 340 would be the last thing that comes to mind in terms of sturdy...

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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:29 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:33 am 
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Actual build, not planned, and I've run them for years now. Bearings are still super smooth front and rear.

Triplet lacing was necessary because the rims have a low tension rating, and running the calculations on what spoke tension would be needed with a 24h set up and that flange spacing, triplet was necessary. I learned about all of this through the WheelBuilding Thread... it's in there somewhere, me asking the question, a following discussion on triplet lacing for the 340 rims, and so on.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:36 am 
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Imaking20 wrote:
...another friend on a custom 340 build - 28/28 build on AC hubs (strong Masters rider but only 135lbs).


That's the problem.

I rode a set of the old 340s 18f and 24r on Alchemy hubs for 10k miles... no problem on fast switchback descents... and I weigh 170.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:40 am 
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verycreativeusername wrote:
I read somewhere that a triplet lacing requires some sturdy rims, the 340 would be the last thing that comes to mind in terms of sturdy...


The rim needs to be fairly *stiff*, and apparently the 340 is stiff enough. The rim isn't that bad for stiffness... but the other components can still make a flexy wheel.

BTW... the new 340s have offset drilling, so no more triplet.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:18 pm 
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Sorry to interrupt the debate, but just wondering if there were any views on the archetype vs the hed c2 (price aside)? Quality, stiffness, brake performance, ease to build up etc
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:34 pm 
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We've built a significant quantity of the Archetypes and have been very happy with them in low and high spoke counts for quality and finish and ease of use.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:44 pm 
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I've read that the finish on the Archetype is the same as the C2, except for the pointy bit

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:00 am 
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Thanks Verycreative and Stradajon.

I had heard the finish of Archetypes was similar to the C2 - there was even one comment suggesting they may come from the same factory as the profile is exactly the same (except for said pointy bit), but who knows . . .

Counter to this, when the archetype first came out, there were mixed views on H + Son quality from a forum across the hall (including the highly respected Tristan from Wheelworks NZ).
http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2 ... 26113.html
http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2 ... 20318.html

So based on more recent views of Strada & Justin Spinelli - it would appear they have got it right with the Archetype and the quality concerns stated previously on the TB14 don't necessarily apply.

Given that, why would anyone go for the Hed C2 if the quality of the Archetype is just as good, weight comparable, looks better (IMHO) and the price far better?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:38 am 
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verycreativeusername wrote:
I've read that the finish on the Archetype is the same as the C2, except for the pointy bit

Care to share links comparing the two? I haven't seen a direct comparison.


If the finish IS as good as as the C2 I'd be interested in building up a set as I do like the looks.


My C2 rims both came in right around 430g as I recall


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:40 am 
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I'll see if I can dig up the pics, note that is an I've read, not I've seen/experienced :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:45 pm 
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neverwasbeen wrote:

Given that, why would anyone go for the Hed C2 if the quality of the Archetype is just as good, weight comparable, looks better (IMHO) and the price far better?


All of the positive evidence that H Plus Son has a good product in the Archetype has come about just in the last few months. Hed has a pretty good head start when it comes to proven reliability. There are plenty of people willing to pay an extra $30ish/rim for that track record. In a couple of years the same question may be incredibly valid.

And for the record, I just ordered a pair of Archetypes. I am willing to take the "risk" for most of the reasons you mentioned above.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:36 pm 
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H Plus Son have a good track record in the Fixed S/S scene so I'm confident in the quality of their rims. The price of HED rims in the UK is high so it makes the Archetype a good option. We've built plenty of both types of rims. Since the Archetype had additional alloy added to the nipple bed they will hold as much spoke tension as the Ardennes but they are 25g heavier. The Archetype has a consistently truer brake finish than the Ardennes. So for a UK purchaser the increase in weight is offset by the Archetype being significantly cheaper.

Hope that helps.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:48 pm 
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xjbaylor wrote:
Hed has a pretty good head start when it comes to proven reliability. There are plenty of people willing to pay an extra $30ish/rim for that track record.


Retail is ~$70 vs $120. Hed no longer sells any <24h... which reduces their suitability for normal size people.

The finish on the two looks the same...bead blasted except that the Archetype has a black anodized brake track that quickly gets worn off. Welded joint, offset drilling, same dimensions, about the same weight.

I wouldn't call the C2 stellar for reliability (like every other rim there have been some reports of cracking), but they have been extremely straight and round. So far I've only built one set of the Archetypes and they were ok.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:45 pm 
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Thanks, very helpful posts.

Although StradaJon I thought that the Hed and the Archetype were both 470g? So no weight difference - or are the Heds coming in well under the published weights?

I understand the Archetype was 450g and could hold max 120kgf tension, but the newer ones with thicker spoke beds are 470g and can hold 130kgf (same as Hed).

In Australia, the retail price difference seems the same as the UK - AUD95 for Archetypes (incl shipping) and circa $150 for Heds. So in my mind given the good experience of Strada, WMW and Spinelli amongst others with the Archetype, it makes sense to save the $100 a set. . .


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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:45 pm 


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