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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Isn't this just a pic taken before they glue on the carbon covers?


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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:31 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Judging by the design of the part "next to the spindle" you might be absolutely right.
My first impression was it can't be right. But you can clearly see the grooves waiting to be filled by something out.
Have to say very impressive design and I started liking this crank as well.
I'm not the follower of it's development. Is it going to be with 30mm spindle, by any chance?

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Last edited by 1415chris on Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:57 pm 
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Yes, it was originally spec'd for a 30mm (BB30) spindle. From looking at the internal arm construction and the pedal shaft support piece, I really like what I see. Should be very stiff and lightweight. Looking forward to seeing the end result and specs.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:49 am 
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Mackers wrote:
Isn't this just a pic taken before they glue on the carbon covers?



Nope.

Guys the new crank is not a slight update to the old one. It's a full rework. The tubes you see now were not a part of the first design.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:58 am 
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Charles,
For clarity, are you also saying that nothing will be covering the small carbon tubes?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:58 am 
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Wow, radically new redesign isn't an understatement... But both look awesome to me! The preorder pricing was very tempting, but I wonder if some people will now be turned of by the aesthetics...

sent by tapatalk because my computer is a paperweight


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:14 am 
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Forget about aesthetics. I am a bit thrown off by the 14 inter-material joints on just the two crank arms alone. I assume the little carbon tubes are glued together? What about glue durability?

Can't wait to see how it finally turns out.


Attachments:
IMG_20121130_141557.jpg
IMG_20121130_141557.jpg [ 31.4 KiB | Viewed 760 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:23 am 
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The shaping of the aluminium near the guy's thumb indicates to me that there will be a cover of some description going over the tubing. I might be wrong, but it certainly looks that way.

I kind of hope not to be honest as the radical looks really appeal to me, but from a marketing / aesthetics perspective I think they'd need to cover the tubes up to make sales as I think it'd turn more people away than it would attract.

As an aside, from an aero perspective it's probably less aero than an R-SYS wheel... :lol:

If I am wrong I think the tube design will struggle to work visually with many bikes. In fact to my mind the only bikes it would work with are the Passoni / Legend / IF / English / other bikes that are part metal, part carbon.

I like it as a concept, and it's actually the kind of thing that I like enough to build a bike around. My biggest fear would be creaking and noise...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:56 am 
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It seems it is actual version which will be delivered at the weight of 390 grams, so I will cancel my order immediately.

First of all, I dont like aluminium to carbon bonding as the glue bond cannot achieve same stiffness as carbon or aluminum. So the weak part is glue bond and how about corrosion?
Bonding a axle to crank is a thing, a completely different thing is incorporate 8-12 more joints with glue.

I liked the first version and my impression was Ted did a weight tuning on existent cranks than make a 180 degree turn and present a design change after money is laid.

There´s a lot of people who have different taste than me, they do love this design but not me.
That´s all.

I hope Ted can get this design floating and making development from there.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:13 am 
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I think the new design is a wonderful new departure from existing methods and looks, and I wish it well. I hope they are as successful as the first generation brakes, which I used for many years and for which I received excellent after-sales service.

The fundamental change however in the crank design, between first floating the design here, taking orders and then finalising is consistent with a company who are not clearly thinking through changes in a systematic market oriented way and appear to be coming to market without adequate testing, even of the underlying concept. Sadly it would appear that lessons from previous product development and launch here are not being learned.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:19 am 
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ghisallo2003 wrote:
I think the new design is a wonderful new departure from existing methods and looks, and I wish it well. I hope they are as successful as the first generation brakes, which I used for many years and for which I received excellent after-sales service.

The fundamental change however in the crank design, between first floating the design here, taking orders and then finalising is consistent with a company who are not clearly thinking through changes in a systematic market oriented way and appear to be coming to market without adequate testing, even of the underlying concept. Sadly it would appear that lessons from previous product development and launch here are not being learned.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:48 am 
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I agree to Ghisallo's views.
But the design just looks very "different" to what is already on the market.

@elviento: I think there is more detail into this design than you have pointed out within your post.
Do not know and a very vague thinking is that the alloy-carbon joints seem to be go-through joints with some tapered carbon heads
which I have marked below.
Attachment:
Ciamillo IMG_20121130_141557.jpg
Ciamillo IMG_20121130_141557.jpg [ 155.46 KiB | Viewed 701 times ]

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viewtopic.php?f=10&t=111825&p=955235#p955235" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:09 am 
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To clarify things:
I do respect Ted´s effort to make products with competitive pricing and performance.
I preordered my Ciamillo crankset, and own ZeroG brakes, they perform well in any weather here in middle of Sweden.

Anyway, here´s my thoughts.
Since the pedal is cantilevered out from the crank arm it acts with a shear force on the crank arm.
This means that the torsional integrity of the crank arm is crucial. In this design the glued ca/alu sleeved joint is taking all the shear force right into the bond. Alu / carbon bonds are notoriously prone to corrosion and just plain don't bond well together. This is why you will see Ti / Carbon or Carbon / Carbon bonds in top quality products.
Alu and carbon is just not a good combination in a structural joint with high shear forces. Any moisture or condensation will make it worse (think battery). The carbon needs to be insulated usually by reinforcing the resin with fiberglass.
Just to reduce the possibility to galvanic corrosion, that´s why I wrote just like battery above.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:15 am 
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Thanks for pointing out the two outlets. I did notice that but since the tubes appear to be round-ish, I doubt it would be a simple press-fit arrangement, as you would then have to consider how to resist the twisting forces between different carbon rods. Afterall, carbon tubes don't always maintain the diameter that well under pressure (remember how a fork steerer expands after you screw in an expander plug?).

PS: agree with Matt's view above re shear forces.

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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:15 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:08 am 
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Interesting concept, but pulling stunts like taking money from people to buy a product then offering them something totally different would not be acceptable in any other profession. Post 6 in this thread:

mrfish wrote:
Great, but perhaps they could focus on getting the customer service basics right (and fixing previously unfixed issues) before rolling out new product - lots of history here suggests that if anything goes wrong with the product it will not be plain sailing.


Good luck with getting something for your money, other than pain and broken promises.


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