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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:52 pm 
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No mate, they aren't powder coated in the same way as the white spokes. They have a sort of engineers ionic coating....done in a bath of chemicals. It's way cheaper and easier to do a large volume in one hit.
They are also much more popular so it's easier to cover the costs. (I'm guessing that DT have a very close eye on the cost/return economics of everything in their range)
:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:56 pm 
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I wouldn't mind betting that the spoke blanks need to be reduced in diameter before they are coated with the white spokes? Probably reduced by acidic bath dipping? Maybe? They measure the same as the plain spokes even after they are coated so they have a good spoke/ hub hole clearance. Could be another stage they need to do before the application of the colour. Either way it's quite a bit of extra work for a small volume (relatively).

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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:56 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:57 pm 
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Sorry (double post)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:10 pm 
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Location: The Netherlands
I forgive you, thanks for you answer!

Next up: send a complaint to Dt swiss. Probably won't help much though..


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Posts: 33
Hey,

A bit of advice please.

I'm planning a new clincher road wheelbuild. Aims are something cheap, reasonable weight, and using a 23mm wide rim. I'm around 83kg (183lbs) and ride on sometimes quite rough uk roads (probably be running a 25mm tyre). I'm expecting to get down to the 78-9kg mark, but do sometimes 'bounce' up to 85-86kgs.

After way to much deliberation I have settled on;

Front:
Rim: BHS C472w 20 hole
Hub: SLF85W: SuperLight Wide 20 hole
Spokes: Sapim Laser

Rear:

Rim: BHS C472w 28 hole
Hub: SL211 SuperLight Rear Hub - 28 hole
Spokes: Sapim Laser

The whole thing should come in at around 1,500g for sub £200GBP/$300USD.

My questions are;

1) what lacing should I be looking at (I thought radial front and x2 on the rear), and
2) is there anything obvious there ^ that I should be looking to improve?

Cheers.


Last edited by Hugo7 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Posts: 105
Location: North Carolina
I would say the vast majority of people use a radial lacing for the SL85w 20h. I recommend 2x for 24h and up, but you could also do it on the front. The width of the hub is already going to contribute to a stiffer front wheel, so you might not tell the difference using 2x while also putting less stress on the flanges (although it's rated for radial).

Most folks lace the SL211 28h 2x/2x, but one builder who has a good deal of experience with that hub swears that 2x NDS and 1x DS heads in is the way to go. In his own words: "It makes noticably stiffer wheels, and the NDS tension is a bit higher, about 10kgf or so. I was doing most 2x/2x, but the 2x/1x has no downsides and returns a better wheel."

I don't recommend 0x/2x. If you want to go radial on the NDS, then consider using a 8:16 hub laced 0x/3x.


Hugo7 wrote:
Hey,

A bit of advice please.

I'm planning a new clincher road wheelbuild. Aims are something cheap, reasonable weight, and using a 23mm wide rim. I'm around 83kg (183lbs) and ride on sometimes quite rough uk roads (probably be running a 25mm tyre). I'm expecting to get down to the 78-9kg mark, but do sometimes 'bounce' up to 85-86kgs.

After way to much deliberation I have settled on;

Front:
Rim: BHS C472w 20 hole
Hub: SLF85W: SuperLight Wide 20 hole
Spokes: Sapim Laser

Rear:

Rim: BHS C472w 28 hole
Hub: SL211 SuperLight Rear Hub - 28 hole
Spokes: Sapim Laser

The whole thing should come in at around 1,500g for sub £200GBP/$300USD.

My questions are;

1) what lacing should I be looking at (I thought radial/x2), and
2) is there anything obvious there ^ that I should be looking to improve?

Cheers.

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Last edited by sbh1973 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Posts: 3657
Location: Leg hurty
Don't use radial nds....it sucks.
Go 2x both sides.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:36 pm 
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trychle wrote:
I forgive you, thanks for you answer!

Next up: send a complaint to Dt swiss. Probably won't help much though..


It's cool, you don't need to forgive anyone. Just be good. :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:48 pm 
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Posts: 33
Cheers, all comments much appreciated.

I edited my post as I realised it might be misleading. No intentions of going radial on the nds rear.

Currently I don't have any lacing preferences. Radial on the front appeals just out of pure ease/laziness :) but I aesthetically I prefer visually similar lacing patterns front and rear... so basically no reasons of importance or worthy of note. So sbh1973 from what you're saying x2 might actually be a better shout for longer durability on the front. Any point in x1? or is it really a x2 vs radial choice?


On the rear I had wondered about x2/x1, but thought it would be best to keep things simple, so thanks for that input. Especially as it's come from someone with experience with that hub.

Also searching back through this thread I've noticed a few people mixing sapim race and lasers on the rear. Is there going to be any noticeable benefit from this? My rational for just only using lasers was that the price difference isn't huge, they are lighter, and with 28h and a 28mm rim I thought that strength wouldn't be an issue.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 33
sbh1973 wrote:
Most folks lace the SL211 28h 2x/2x, but one builder who has a good deal of experience with that hub swears that 2x NDS and 1x DS heads is the way to go.


Sorry just to clarify, was that a typo and did it mean to say DS heads out?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 3657
Location: Leg hurty
Hugo7 wrote:
Hey,

A bit of advice please.

I'm planning a new clincher road wheelbuild. Aims are something cheap, reasonable weight, and using a 23mm wide rim. I'm around 83kg (183lbs) and ride on sometimes quite rough uk roads (probably be running a 25mm tyre). I'm expecting to get down to the 78-9kg mark, but do sometimes 'bounce' up to 85-86kgs.

After way to much deliberation I have settled on;

Front:
Rim: BHS C472w 20 hole
Hub: SLF85W: SuperLight Wide 20 hole
Spokes: Sapim Laser


Hey, if you want a reliable wheelset, you need to be realistic about materials.
Rear:

Rim: BHS C472w 28 hole
Hub: SL211 SuperLight Rear Hub - 28 hole
Spokes: Sapim Laser

The whole thing should come in at around 1,500g for sub £200GBP/$300USD.

My questions are;

1) what lacing should I be looking at (I thought radial front and x2 on the rear), and
2) is there anything obvious there ^ that I should be looking to improve?

Cheers.

_________________
Pedalling Law Student.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 33
ummm... a little confused about that post.

{USERNAME} wrote:
Hey, if you want a reliable wheelset, you need to be realistic about materials.


Do you mean there is something wrong with the parts I've listed? I assume the rear hub, if so what would be a better alternative?

Or did you mean the lacing pattern? - If so do you mean you would recommend x2 front + x2 rear, and definitely not the x1 NDS/x2 DS rear as suggested above? If so is there any particular reason why?

Cheers.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:08 am
Posts: 105
Location: North Carolina
Apologies: it was a typo. The builder I cited actually recommend DS heads in.

Again, the standard build is 2x/2x, but this guy has built a lot of wheels using this hub, and that's his favorite recipe.

Hugo7 wrote:
sbh1973 wrote:
Most folks lace the SL211 28h 2x/2x, but one builder who has a good deal of experience with that hub swears that 2x NDS and 1x DS heads is the way to go.


Sorry just to clarify, was that a typo and did it mean to say DS heads out?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:57 pm 
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Posts: 33
Cheers for clearing that up it's really helpful.

After a bit of searching I also came across a post mentioning something similar:

{USERNAME} wrote:
Jeremy at Alchemy wheelworks has done some testing with identical wheels one 20h laced 1x drive and 2x non drive and then a 24h laced 2x both side and the 20h actually tested stiffer.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32596&p=326467&hilit=+20%2C+lacing+pattern%2C+20h#p326467" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think I'll probably give it a go unless I hear lots of people with the opposite experience pipe up.


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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:57 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:20 am 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 3320
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I would also do 2x lacing boths sides for a 28 spoke wheel and for the 24 spoke front.
DS use of Sapim race spokes is something I do to increase the lateral stiffness of the wheel if I feel that is needed. The hubs you are choosing have short DS flange spacing don't they. Have you considered something like the Novatec F482 hub. better flange spacings I think and you will get a better tension balance.

Never worked with that BHS rim but wouldn't the H+ archetype do a similar job and they are available in the U.K. A bit lighter too. The archetype laced to novatec A291 front 24H and F482 28h with sapim Laser spokes 2x front and rear should be stiff enough for an 80kg rider. If you air on the side of caution use Sapim race spokes DS on the rear.
Weight should be 1485g with laser spokes all round and 1505g with race spokes DS. This assumes the use of alloy nipples which should be fine if you avoid the salt. Use Brass nipples and add piece of mind and 40g.

Jeremy's testing is probably right. 1xDS would increase the stiffness of the wheel. However there are down sides. If a spoke does go then the wheel will be unridable if it's 20 spoke effort. Pretty minor downside until one breaks.

Your newly evolved plan would be lighter but lower weight can be acheived with a lighter rim.

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