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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:52 am 
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Location: Geelong
The issue is that even on the flats the OP's power to weight still won't be that amazing.

No one is suggesting he become like The Machinist. Just a little slimmer.


OP - search the Training section of the forum for diet suggestions. My best advice, given how new you are, is simply; ride your bike, cut back on the gym and a few less protein shakes.

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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:52 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:44 am 
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Posts: 292
If you're big AND you're strong you may well have an advantage aerodynamically.
Even though your power to weight ratio is down, your mass to frontal area ratio will be superior.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:42 pm
Posts: 3915
Location: lat 38.9677 lon 77.3366
A strong rider at the described weight will gain more performance having a stiff wheel then an ubar light wheel. Madfibers, while fine wheels are not stiff with strong riders of this size. Over the years, a higher spoke count (28 being good for me) has shown to be helpful in otherwise light weight builds. The only wheel I've had with lower spoke counts that survived are Camp Boras, and they are around 1320 grams. The main thing I suggest is to look at overall performance rather then focus on any one aspect (such as weight) when choosing a wheel for us big guys. Handling on fast descents on bumpy roads with noodle wheels sucks. Sprinting with "noodle wheels" sucks when your brakes rub. The worst sound is hearing that crack sound as the rim fails or spokes break. I've been there and done that.

FYI my fastest personal record for climbing these gaps ( http://www.northeastcycling.com/six_gaps.html ) was set not using my light climbing wheels bit a pair of cross wheels (32 spoke) set up with Dugast 25 PR tires. Go figure :noidea:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:48 pm 
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rustychain wrote:
A strong rider at the described weight will gain more performance having a stiff wheel then an ubar light wheel. Madfibers, while fine wheels are not stiff with strong riders of this size. Over the years, a higher spoke count (28 being good for me) has shown to be helpful in otherwise light weight builds. The only wheel I've had with lower spoke counts that survived are Camp Boras, and they are around 1320 grams. The main thing I suggest is to look at overall performance rather then focus on any one aspect (such as weight) when choosing a wheel for us big guys. Handling on fast descents on bumpy roads with noodle wheels sucks. Sprinting with "noodle wheels" sucks when your brakes rub. The worst sound is hearing that crack sound as the rim fails or spokes break. I've been there and done that.

FYI my fastest personal record for climbing these gaps ( http://www.northeastcycling.com/six_gaps.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) was set not using my light climbing wheels bit a pair of cross wheels (32 spoke) set up with Dugast 25 PR tires. Go figure :noidea:

Nice Ride :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Posts: 275
Wow that does look like a nice ride, I know I am not going to be all I can be for another 2 years but I just want to do everything I can to cut the curve. I love riding and have not found anything to be more of a competitive outlet than cycling. My whole goal is to be a faster rider, I think if There was a 60 mm rim and the set wt was 990 I would be getting the best of both world. I have always been like that my whole life. I have not lifted weights for over5 years, so I have been out of the gym. I would like to know why you would choose tune hubs over extralite and what op means. Thanks for all the input you guys.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Location: eh?
rustychain wrote:
Handling on fast descents on bumpy roads with noodle wheels sucks.


This is no joke. At anything approaching 200 lbs, aggressive descending can cost you serious injury or your life with the wrong wheel. At 190 lbs I have experienced my front wheel on a very good but light wheelset go completely slack and collapse against one side of the front brake. It happened in a curve with a little dip in the road surface. The combined forces of the curve and the compression in the dip resulted in serious wheel distortion. Sure it snapped back but for a moment it was pretty scary. At 230 you might even want to avoid lighter gauge spokes and stick with something like DT Comps.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:42 pm
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Location: lat 38.9677 lon 77.3366
Mr. Gib,
I share this experience you describe so well. I tried to explain it to the folks at Zipp and was told it was impossible as they (Zipp's engineers) could not reproduce it in their testing. :roll:
It was the most terrifying feeling I have ever had on a bike (and I have had my share). Thanks for the confirmation of our "impossible issue"
I fear the quest for data points outweighs the understanding of what makes for a good wheel set. Some of us must learn from personal experience I guess

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:41 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
liketoride wrote:
Wow that does look like a nice ride, I know I am not going to be all I can be for another 2 years but I just want to do everything I can to cut the curve.


The best way to do that would be to buy a power meter and hire a coach, not buy light or aero wheels. Wheels will give you a tiny improvement; good training and instruction on how to race will make a huge improvement. Save the special parts for when you are close to maxing out your abilities.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2682
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
While building upo a light bike is always nice I am not sure if it what I would do if I was a muscular 230 lb rider.

I ride with people who are much lighter than the OP and they are bike destroyers (and there kit o not lightweight). If the OP has described himself correctly as he trains and his strength develops he may find even the strongest light wheels having the odd durability issue.

A strong rider is fast no matter how light the bike. My thoughts are not for a very light wheelset but for something that can take the abuse of a powerful rider.

Durace/CK hubs 28F 32R and something like the DT Swiss RR585 rim or maybe the Kinlin XR300 if you want low weight.
As for the areo rims no offence but the frontal area the OP's body will present will reduce the effect that any areo wheelset will give. If the OP can get his position right that will have more of an effect and it's cheaper.

Aero kit does not make a rider fast the rider makes the bike fast. Aero kit helps a fast rider be a little bit faster.

My 2p worth.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:14 pm 
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Posts: 275
Please tell me what op means, I can't figure it out.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:29 pm 
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Posts: 769
Location: Surrey UK
Original Poster, the first post or person to post on a topic in an online forum, per Wikipedia :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:05 am
Posts: 275
Thanks for that. When I ride on sat I ride flat ground and I run really hard as this is the only time I see good riders around and by myself I usually ave 21mph over a 45 mile stretch. I do agree that safety is most important to me. The reason I don't want to race is because I don't want to crash at 25-30 mph plus I don't want to spend more money because me or someone else made a mistake.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:39 pm 
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Posts: 2196
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Group rides are as dangerous as races. At least in races everyone is paying attention.

My two serious crashes were in group rides. No race crashes (yet) in about 80 races.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:27 am
Posts: 16
OP - In case I missed it, when you compared the TCR to your FELT - did you have the same set of wheels on both? Possible reason for variance?

I'm at 190 lbs (I wish as strong as you) and in the search for 'reasonable lighness' have gone through at least three sets of wheels that were just not stiff enough, it felt like I was doggin it in sprints and on the hills ever time. My last set was 1400 grams on 24/28. I've already been schooedl by some of the wheel builders here and decided listening to their experience saves me money in the end and I get wheels that work for me.
I wonder if there some way to find the 'tipping point' of rotating weight vs stiffness - not taking into account aero.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:23 am 
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eric wrote:
Group rides are as dangerous as races. At least in races everyone is paying attention.

My two serious crashes were in group rides. No race crashes (yet) in about 80 races.


Agreed. Sometimes I've felt group rides can actually be more dangerous simply because there isn't nearly as much focus as there is in races. Carelessness starts to show through far more often, particularly when your riding in a group with varying levels of pack experience.

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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:23 am 


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