Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

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liketoride

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:11 am

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:05 am
Posts: 32

I am a ww at heart and I do look at this as a project, I think it is what makes it fun. I don't know how to make the bike more aero other than increasing the rim depth? Can you help me out if I am missing something? I have aerolight pedals with mavic heuz shoes. What else can I do?

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Zen Cyclery

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:14 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
Posts: 1131
Location: McCall, ID

Well, there are little things you can do, but upgrading to a set of aero wheels is going to be the most noticable.
Other than that, you can minimize your drag coefficient by getting a set of clip on tt bars, or an aero helmet.

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liketoride

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:57 am

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:05 am
Posts: 32

Well madfiber is the lightest biggest wheelset I know about and they don't have a weight limit but they only have 12 and 18 count spokes and that just doesn't seem like enough but they don't have a weight limit so I don't know

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Zen Cyclery

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:03 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:27 am
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Location: McCall, ID

You don't need to quote the post above

Take a look at the 65s from Enve. They come in much more sensible spoke counts than Madfiber, and they come standard with a 5 year warranty.

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fa63

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:13 am

Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:26 am
Posts: 1574
Location: Atlanta, GA, US

If we are talking aero, wouldn't the Smart 6.7 rims be a better choice?

Also, the Madfiber don't have a weight limit because they are a special construction, different from conventional spoked wheels, so the spoke counts can be lower.

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Mr.Gib

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:32 am

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 2218
Location: eh?

Aero?? Seriously guys, can you imagine the drag from this guys shoulders? I have a big upper body and it sucks. Looking for efficiency, make sure your clothing is tight. I am guessing it already is at 230 lbs with no body fat. Probably a few euro clothing brands that don't even have a size to fit the OP.

liketoride, go ahead and build a light bike, a fun project and it is always cool to lift up a 12 lb machine. As for the riding part, be patient. Even with hard training it could take 2 to 3 years to build your engine to its potential. Also, if you lay off the gym you will lose muscle as you age.

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verycreativeusername

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:28 am

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Posts: 238
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Mr.Gib wrote:

you will lose muscle as you age.

I don't get why you want to loose some muscle, sure it makes you heavier, sure it makes you unable to use WW parts, But I would love to be that strong. If I were in your shoes, I would build some 88mm rims (or maybe even deeper) and just smirk at the lighter cyclists who get blown about on their 30mm rims.

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fa63

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:51 am

Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:26 am
Posts: 1574
Location: Atlanta, GA, US

Mr.Gib wrote:

Aero?? Seriously guys, can you imagine the drag from this guys shoulders?

True, the rider is a very large percentage of total drag but this doesn't change the fact that there are aerodynamic gains to be had from equipment so might as well try to gain some benefit from things within his control. An aero frame, aero wheeels, good tight-fitting clothing (like the Castelli San Remo Speedsuit), shoe covers, and even an aero road helmet like the Giro Air Attack if you want to go all out, can help anyone in the performance department no matter their size.

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Tinea Pedis

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:52 am

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Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:08 am
Posts: 6570
Location: Geeeelong!

The issue is that even on the flats the OP's power to weight still won't be that amazing.

No one is suggesting he become like The Machinist. Just a little slimmer.

OP - search the Training section of the forum for diet suggestions. My best advice, given how new you are, is simply; ride your bike, cut back on the gym and a few less protein shakes.

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BobSantini

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:44 am

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:03 am
Posts: 292

If you're big AND you're strong you may well have an advantage aerodynamically.
Even though your power to weight ratio is down, your mass to frontal area ratio will be superior.

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rustychain

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:06 pm

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:42 pm
Posts: 3911
Location: lat 38.9677 lon 77.3366

A strong rider at the described weight will gain more performance having a stiff wheel then an ubar light wheel. Madfibers, while fine wheels are not stiff with strong riders of this size. Over the years, a higher spoke count (28 being good for me) has shown to be helpful in otherwise light weight builds. The only wheel I've had with lower spoke counts that survived are Camp Boras, and they are around 1320 grams. The main thing I suggest is to look at overall performance rather then focus on any one aspect (such as weight) when choosing a wheel for us big guys. Handling on fast descents on bumpy roads with noodle wheels sucks. Sprinting with "noodle wheels" sucks when your brakes rub. The worst sound is hearing that crack sound as the rim fails or spokes break. I've been there and done that.

FYI my fastest personal record for climbing these gaps ( http://www.northeastcycling.com/six_gaps.html ) was set not using my light climbing wheels bit a pair of cross wheels (32 spoke) set up with Dugast 25 PR tires. Go figure :noidea:

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KLabs

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:48 pm

Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 305

rustychain wrote:

A strong rider at the described weight will gain more performance having a stiff wheel then an ubar light wheel. Madfibers, while fine wheels are not stiff with strong riders of this size. Over the years, a higher spoke count (28 being good for me) has shown to be helpful in otherwise light weight builds. The only wheel I've had with lower spoke counts that survived are Camp Boras, and they are around 1320 grams. The main thing I suggest is to look at overall performance rather then focus on any one aspect (such as weight) when choosing a wheel for us big guys. Handling on fast descents on bumpy roads with noodle wheels sucks. Sprinting with "noodle wheels" sucks when your brakes rub. The worst sound is hearing that crack sound as the rim fails or spokes break. I've been there and done that.

FYI my fastest personal record for climbing these gaps ( http://www.northeastcycling.com/six_gaps.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) was set not using my light climbing wheels bit a pair of cross wheels (32 spoke) set up with Dugast 25 PR tires. Go figure :noidea:

Nice Ride

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liketoride

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:37 pm

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:05 am
Posts: 32

Wow that does look like a nice ride, I know I am not going to be all I can be for another 2 years but I just want to do everything I can to cut the curve. I love riding and have not found anything to be more of a competitive outlet than cycling. My whole goal is to be a faster rider, I think if There was a 60 mm rim and the set wt was 990 I would be getting the best of both world. I have always been like that my whole life. I have not lifted weights for over5 years, so I have been out of the gym. I would like to know why you would choose tune hubs over extralite and what op means. Thanks for all the input you guys.

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Mr.Gib

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:40 pm

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 2218
Location: eh?

rustychain wrote:

Handling on fast descents on bumpy roads with noodle wheels sucks.

This is no joke. At anything approaching 200 lbs, aggressive descending can cost you serious injury or your life with the wrong wheel. At 190 lbs I have experienced my front wheel on a very good but light wheelset go completely slack and collapse against one side of the front brake. It happened in a curve with a little dip in the road surface. The combined forces of the curve and the compression in the dip resulted in serious wheel distortion. Sure it snapped back but for a moment it was pretty scary. At 230 you might even want to avoid lighter gauge spokes and stick with something like DT Comps.

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Mr.Gib got it right

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rustychain

Post subject: Re: Heavy rider, need help with my first ww wheelset

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:47 pm

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:42 pm
Posts: 3911
Location: lat 38.9677 lon 77.3366

Mr. Gib,
I share this experience you describe so well. I tried to explain it to the folks at Zipp and was told it was impossible as they (Zipp's engineers) could not reproduce it in their testing. :roll:

It was the most terrifying feeling I have ever had on a bike (and I have had my share). Thanks for the confirmation of our "impossible issue"
I fear the quest for data points outweighs the understanding of what makes for a good wheel set. Some of us must learn from personal experience I guess

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