Swapping out Campagnolo Athena II for Shimano Ultegra?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Lewis
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:22 pm
Location: UK - Hertfordshire

by Lewis

As above guys, recently bought a bike with full Campag Athena 2 Groupset and can't seem to get on with the gears as well my my other bike with full Ultegra. They work ok, but seem to require a lot of readjustment and fettling, and I find them grinding a little too often for my liking. I've set them up properly and know what i'm doing, but they just don't seem to work as well as the Shimano set up (Japanese vrs Italian I guess!) :roll:

Anyway, what I need to know is how much of an arse will it be to swap everything from one bike to another? I know most of it will be easy, just the BB and crankset worry me slightly. The Shimano equipped bike uses an Ultegra external BB, whereas the Campag is an internal press fit to suit the 'Powertorque' crankset. I guess i'll have to have the old BB and new internal Shimano Ultegra fitted also? Anyone know any good bike shops around south (near london) who are decent and wouldn't hash up my new frame?

Thanks!
2012 Canyon Ultimate AL 8.0

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bikerjulio
Posts: 1901
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

Campy stuff should be set and forget. If you are having shifting troubles, then IMO it's related to the installation, with excess cable friction probably being high on the list. Hanger alignment too, needs checking.

If you really want to swap then the crankset needs a oversize hex (forget the size for the moment) and a special puller to remove the NDS crank. Other than that, Campy uses Torx T25 fastners on the RD and shifters. You will have to swap the wheels over, leaving cassettes in place.

Up to you of course, but I think you'd be better off getting to the cause of your problems and fixing them.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

by Weenie


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apLe
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:24 pm
Location: Poland/Cracow

by apLe

Man, take your bike to a decent LBS which knows how to install Campagnolo groupsets and tell them to check cables and r.der. hanger alignment (as mentioned before). Properly installed and tuned Campa 11s is a pure pleasure to ride.
18' R5 coming soon...

Lewis
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:22 pm
Location: UK - Hertfordshire

by Lewis

When I took delivery from Canyon and went for the first test ride there was noise from the derailleur not lining up properly with the rear cassette, so I adjusted that (well pretty much re-indexed the gears). Also had to mess about with the front mech to stop rub when using a broad range of gears. The beauty of the shimano set up was I could use almost all the gears on the rear on both front chain rings without much trouble. Obviously I don't do this as the chain angle is too extreme, but you get what I mean. I don't know whether it's the 11 speed block that's the issue. When i'm using the smaller front chain ring and I start to speed up, I have to shift to the larger chain ring as I move down through the gears at the rear, then when I come to a slight hill and just want to flick the rear gears back up a to slightly easier one (yet not bothering to change down at the front as that would make it too easy), I get chain rub on the front derailleur. When I click down using the thumb lever it changes to the smaller front chain ring rather than there being an intermediate 'trim' point to just adjust to remove the chain rub. Should the thumb lever have an intermediate setting (if that makes sense)?

Also even though i've indexed the gears, they change up sweet through the gears when in the smaller chain ring, but when using the larger one and doing the same process the chain doesn't shift smoothly through the gears on the middle of the block (i.e. you click and it doesn't pop to the next gear, just grinds). If you excuse the pun, it's grinding my gears! :oops:

With regard to swapping the wheels, surely I could just swap out the blocks and the freehubs?

Thanks guys.
2012 Canyon Ultimate AL 8.0

andyindo
Posts: 395
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 10:03 am

by andyindo

Sounds like its not set up right.......

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apLe
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:24 pm
Location: Poland/Cracow

by apLe

Check the distance between upper pulley and the largest cog in your cassette. It should meet Campy instructions and it IS very important. You should also check your hanger with proper tool. If you don't have one, visit your LBS. As for the front shifting, check whether you can shift from small to big ring with just THREE clicks, not FOUR. You should go through the Campy manual for any details. If you feel you can't handle it, go to your LBS. I use Campagnolo 11s as well, and yes, I did have to fiddle with gears, tension etc. as well, but once you learn how to do it you won't have any problems. Keep your drivetrain clean and greased, it does make a difference as well. It has been said a lot about 11s Campy groupsets on this forum, just use search and you'll notice exactly the same solutions/piece of advice as stated above. And please, take your bike to the shop where they know how to mount, service and tune Campagnolo. Shimano and Sram is not Campy.
18' R5 coming soon...

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bikerjulio
Posts: 1901
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

I just installed Athena 11 on a bike and have had a couple of rides. No shifting or FD rubbing problems. I have 2 positions of trim in the big ring. I can just tell from your description that it's not set up right.

This is not a Campy problem, it's a bad install and setup.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

istigatrice
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Location: Australia

by istigatrice

apLe wrote:As for the front shifting, check whether you can shift from small to big ring with just THREE clicks, not FOUR. You should go through the Campy manual for any details.

Isn't the new Athena power-shift? doesn't power-shift shift differently to ultra-shift (the method you described sounds like ultra-shift internals)?
I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it :)

Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)

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apLe
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:24 pm
Location: Poland/Cracow

by apLe

I checked Campy manuals and there is no difference if we're talking about power- or ultrashift. "The derailleur must work with 3 clicks".
18' R5 coming soon...

Pharmstrong
Posts: 328
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:17 pm

by Pharmstrong

I received a Canyon AL with Athena a few months ago. My derailleurs were not set correctly either. The rear was easy enough to sort with just the barrel adjuster but I had to completely reinstall the front. I installed it to Campag's instructions and can now run all 11 cogs in the big ring with no chain rub on the cage. The trim/intermediate position is on the inner ring. 1 thumb click down, 3 paddle clicks up.

My front and rear shifting has been super smooth since then. Apart from the usual noise in the top and bottom 2 cogs when cross chaining, I do sometimes get a noise in 50/13 - 14. When I come to re-cable the bike, I'm going to reinstall the rear derailleur and check the hanger's alignment.

And as for durability, once I had set the derailleurs properly, I cleaned and oiled the chain with Chain-L. Given the crappy weather in the UK now the drivetrain has become very very dirty between cleans but always run without fault.

bm0p700f
in the industry
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by bm0p700f

Campag drive trains just work. Without any of use looking at it we are just guessing. I would start by checking the cable inner are not kinked anywhere causing friction. That taking them out completly then check the routing of the outers.

Then just set it up the way you would any drive train. Getting it shifting correctly takes a minute, really it that easy if everthing is installed correctly.

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kgt
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Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

apLe wrote:Man, take your bike to a decent LBS which knows how to install Campagnolo groupsets. Properly installed and tuned Campa 11s is a pure pleasure to ride.

+100

Lewis
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:22 pm
Location: UK - Hertfordshire

by Lewis

How many clicks of the thumb lever should I need to changed own at the front? I don't appear to have the ability semi click to trim so it stopsthechainrub?
2012 Canyon Ultimate AL 8.0

fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
Posts: 5851
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,

You should not even be required to trim the FD except perhaps for the smallest cog (11T or 12T depending on what you have there) when riding the small ring. A position you normal would not use due to excessive cross-chaining.
On the biggest (physical) cog and the small platter you can have mild chainrub when the bike is on the stand, once you're riding it you'll tension the chain enough so no chainrub occurs.

The FD should be set so it changes from the small to big ring and vice versa in three clicks without (obviously) throwing the chain over the big ring or dropping it off the small ring when doing so.

If you're chain does not descend properly from the taller to the smaller cogs (this is more obvious on the bigger ring) it often means one or two things (or both) : the derrie cable is tensioned too much or there is excessive drag from the cable somewhere down the line.

Before you start fiddling with a gruppo set up always make sure to check the frame/hanger is properly aligned. Without it there is no way to set things up correctly. Be that for the Athena or any other groupset for that matter.

Why not download and follow Campa's instructions? They're well written and to the point.


Compliments on the choice of frame and gruppo BTW. They look classy. Keep it that way.... :mrgreen:

Ciao, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

by Weenie


Pharmstrong
Posts: 328
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:17 pm

by Pharmstrong

Lewis wrote:How many clicks of the thumb lever should I need to changed own at the front? I don't appear to have the ability semi click to trim so it stopsthechainrub?


1 click on the thumb lever, 3 on the paddle.

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