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 Post subject: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:59 pm 
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I am baffled about what kind of Kreitler rollers to get. The wattage chart on the Kreitler website is pretty much useless when there are so many different variables to take in account when determining what kind of wattage you will generate.

I would like to have some resistance as well because I'm planning to do some threshold work, as well as some hard 3min efforts. Killer Kool Headwind fan would definitely add some serious resistance, but just how noisy it will get? I will get some big fans to keep me cool, so the Killer Kool Headwind fan would be pretty much just for resistance

Should I get 4.5 drumsize and just run them with the fan&flywheel to get enough resistance? Or would the 2.25 drums be fine with flywheel? It would be less noisy without the Killer Kool Headwind fan, and less pricey as well.

Will you get twice the resistance if you run two flywheels?


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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Get the 2.25 or 3 inch with a headwind fan. My headwind fan is no louder than a stationary trainer. It does provide a little bit of breeze but you'll still want a real fan. The headwind fan provides a lot of progressive resistance plenty to do vo2 anerobic intervals. 3inch rollers provide me enough resistance to do a long say 3hr. endurance ride without the headwind fan, so it's quiet and fast(think momentum) like being on brand new tarmac with a tailwind.


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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:04 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:26 pm 
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What sort of wattage are you pushing?

I have some 3" Kreitlers. I'm 76Kg, and I can ride up to about 320ish Watts before I run out of gears at a comfortable cadence (~100rpm).

I mostly just use them for race warm-ups and easy workouts though.

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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:07 am 
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Yep about the same here without the fan. I'll set the fan up and give some numbers so we can all see. Maybe I'll do a ramp threw each gear at 90 rpms or so with the fan open 1/4 1/2 3/4 and full. I can't remember what the exact wattage was with the fan (I haven't been on them since last winter) but for reference my FTP was at 300 when I was using them, and there was more available power than I would ever need on a set of rollers. Give me a day or so and I'll try and post a power profile so all can see the resistance.


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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:07 am 
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Well I would like to get over 400 watts in my hard 3min efforts. Right now I'm thinking of maybe going with the 3" size with the fan. I guess you can run them without the fan for the easier workouts and then use the fan for harder workouts when you want some resistance.


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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:48 am 
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I would think you'd be fine with that.

For me, the wattage is quite close to the wattage chart. So 400W with the headwind fan fully open would be somewhere in the region of 90rpm in a 53/15 or 50/14.

You'll have to be pretty focussed on your technique to manage hard intervals on rollers, though. When I do hard interval sets I'm aiming to be on the edge of collapse and puking by the end - not a good place to be on the rollers.* :shock:

I do all my FTP+ work on the Kurt, or out on the road.

* Unless you happen to have a padded room.

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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Over 400 watts is no problem. Well over a 1000 watts is possible with the fan. Hard intervals are difficult on rollers but will make you a better bike rider, or at the very least will keep you sharp threw the winter months. I made a free motion frame for mine which makes riding the rollers during hard efforts much easier. See the wattage chart that MattSoutherden mentioned here http://www.mountainracingproducts.com/w ... _chart.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I found the chart to be a good idea of what kind of power to expect give or take depending on weight rolling resistance ect.


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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:27 pm 
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As a trackie I've owned (and currently own, sadly) every size of Kreitler plus TruTrainers and every other kind of roller out there. A few comments.

First, rollers are best for developing strength and aerobic capacity at high rpms. Don't limit yourself to 100 rpm. The aerobic capacity totally carries over from riding 160 rpm to lower cadences, and if you're really trying to build power, you probably want to consider plyometrics or free weights over rollers or trainers anyway.

Second, among Kreitlers, the headwind trainer does provide a lot of resistance with the cover on the side closed, but in my own opinion it's noisy, klutzy, and makes your roller assembly quite long and a pain to assemble and disassemble each time you ride. If you have a place where it can just sit out, this isn't as big a problem, but if you want to use it in a doorway watching tv, it can just become the difference between training and saying that the assembly is too much. I also find that it's a bit erratic and for trainer training, you really want something very reproducible and consistent.

Kreitler also has some flywheel weights, but I don't recommend them at all. They are poorly made and I've never seen ones that are perfectly round, so they create a vibration in the rollers and simply don't roll smoothly.

Let me say that if you want high wattage outputs on rollers, you should be looking at TruTrainers (www.trutrainer.com) with the flywheel option. Nothing but nothing gives the same degree of smoothness at higher resistance, and you can get the release option so you can disengage the internal flywheel and use them for more of a spinning ride. They are pricey and heavy, but they fold (which eMotions don't) and once you're used to rollers you really don't need all the hardware on eMotions. I'll say that I see a lot of eMotions up for sale from people who are changing to other simpler rollers, but rarely see TruTrainers for sale.

In Kreitlers, you can get two frame designs, the Kompact (where the drums bolt into holes on a flange on top of the frame and have to be unbolted to move) and the Classic (where the drums can slide back and forth with the release of a quickpin. The advantages of the Classic are that you can get ultra-short or long wheelbases with them, and you can adjust wheelbase easily. However, the pins tend to fall loose and everything is more susceptible to rattling and feels less rigid. The Kompact comes standard with 3.0 inch drums, but you can put any drums on it you want. They don't fold up as compactly with 4.5 inch drums for some wheelbases, that's all. With 3.0 drums, everything works fine for road bikes, and with 2.25 drums, you can do anything with them.

As for choice of drum size, the 2.25 drums basically cause the tire to flex more radically, thus creating more resistance. The feeling is akin to riding tires with very high rolling resistance. It's good training but unless you pump up your tires a bit more (which then reduces wattage max) you don't feel as much snap in your accelerations on this size drum. I do like riding them just for a really tough workout, but not for daily riding (which for me, as a track rider, involves more high cadence workouts where that sluggishness is actually counterproductive to my training). The 3.0 inch drums are a good compromise. I can't say I'm overwhelmed by the feeling, but they're certainly lighter, more compact, and, as I said, a good compromise.

My point is, don't write off the 4.5 inch drums. You can get a hellacious workout on them at higher cadence, which is what they're really best for anyway. Then do plyometrics, stair jumping, free weights, whatever you want to build power. It's more focused and more effective for winter improvement than simply riding a trainer or riding rollers with resistance.

And by the way, don't reduce your tire pressure or put a towel under one roller to increase resistance. Both approaches are often suggested, but not wisely. Lower tire pressure can make you prone to a blowout plus it just takes away the snap from your accelerations. And the towel is an invitation to having something snag, at which point you usually go down. It's also completely lacking in reproducibility and consistency.


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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Thanks 11.4 - this is possibly one of the most complete and candid summaries of rollers on the web.


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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:55 am 
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What about magnet bars placed near the aluminum rollers to create resistance ? Anyone have a yea or nay on that idea ?


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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Do you know of a new kind of ferrous aluminium, Rick?

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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:53 am 
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The material (aluminum) does not need to be magnetic, only conductive. The relative motion of the conductors and magnet set up eddy current which oppose the magnetic field of the magnet. This is the scheme that cyclops and some others use to add resistance to the rollers. I just don't know how well it works and how much resistance it really adds. They just have a bar with magnets on it that mounts close to the rotating aluminum drum.
You can see some pretty cool evects of magnetic breaking with non-magnetic materials on youtube videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo9xY4e9 ... re=related


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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:15 am 
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Has anyone tried the Minoura Mag resistance unit on the Kreitler rollers? I currently have the Minoura Action with Mag unit, the unit provides 600+w of resistance. I recently rode on the Kreitler and it was noticeably smoother than the Minoura, and with the mag resistance it would be quite nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:15 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Kreitler setup?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:26 pm 
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Posts: 143
^^^Was doing some research and found one report of a user who managed to successfully retrofit the Minoura resistance unit to Kreitler rollers.

http://tandemgeek.wordpress.com/2011/01 ... e-farkles/

Currently looking at doing the same.


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