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 Post subject: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:35 pm
Posts: 1438
Location: Middle of nowhere, EU
They seem to be readily available now. Anyone own one?
They look really interesting but I´m a bit confused by their sizing and marketing.
The rear triangle looks like something GT invented in the 80´s combined with some of cérvelos desings, but of course if it lives up to the hype that´s just great.
BMC are building a lugged frame (like colnago has always done) with tubes made on site (look at the fancy videos :popcorn: )...
At a price around 10000 Euros! They are not offering custom geometry??? Colnago offers custom geometry at a price lower than a standard Impec...
They have two options racing and touring (not a bad idea) but when you brag and brag and brag about your super duper custom factory and have a lugged design, total custom geometry should be quite easy to offer. After all were talking severe high end pricing why not deliver high end fitting?
I´m a bit confused by this decision. I´m sure the BMC riders can get custom, don't you think?
I ´m not bashing BMC I´m actually quite interested in the Impec, I´m just not following their line of thought, pricing does not seem to be connected to what you get (Swiss tubes or not) , thoughts?

Give me a good reason to pay twice what I would pay for this beauty:

http://www.bikebuster.com/details/121172.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:07 am
Posts: 91
re rear triangle. its a BMC trade mark. its makes the bikes distinctive.

re geometry.

im going to go out on a limb here and say whilst they dont offer custom geo' BMC do have the best/most sensible geometry for road bikes from any of the major brands. Also having 2 HTL options per size is almost better than offering 1cm increments in TT. peoples seat heights do not have a direct correlation with their reach needs.

when you buy a production bike, to a degree you're buying into what that particular company thinks is enough sizes/the right geometry. if you can't make that work for you then there is no shortage of frame builders offering full custom geo'.


comparing an IMPEC to a C59 is valid, but not really a direct comparison. whilst Colonago's C59 is an object of desire from a brand with one of the greatest heritages in cycling..

the IMPEC is on another level altogether.

a frame built in a purpose built factory using a lot of new/never applied to bicycles before technology, and again going out on a limb, but to at least a slightly higher level of quality.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:41 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:17 pm
Posts: 326
The lugs, or er "shell nodes" on the impec are injection moulded, so it's understandable that they don't offer custom geometry's. As has been said, I think offering every size in two headtube lengths, like Trek, Parlee etc is an approach that will cover the vast majority.

I'd love to try an impec, I just find it a bit telling that all the BMC team riders rode them for half a season, and then went back to their SLRs?


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:36 am
Posts: 170
I think the real reason they don't offer custom geo is that the company has taken 3+ years to get a handle on producing the frame, even in stock form. There must have been massive manufacturing complications behind the scenes. This bike became cycling's equivalent of a failed North Korean rocket launch or Max Schmelling after he lost to Joe Louis; TONS of hype from the home team... and then virtually ignored, a non-entity.

BMC has launched several team-used road racing bikes since they first declared the Impec ready for prime time. After a brief appearance under Cadel in the Tour, the Impec vanished and it's been all Team Machines, Time Machines, and Gran Fondos. The absence is made even more curious by the fact that the few *real* ride reviews I've read suggest the Impec has very agreeable ride qualities that should suit a one-day classic on cobbles or multi-day stage races.

If BMC had Impec bikes available and full confidence in the product, you'd better believe that everyone on the pro team would be riding it every day under orders from HQ. It's telling that a squad with more past and present rainbow jerseys (and a TDF winner) than half the peloton combined has its marquee riders rolling on what are *technically* their mid-upper range frames, not the flagship. It would be as if Sky spent two seasons riding around winning everything under the sun and never using some variant of the Dogma.

I'd love to hear input from anyone with first-hand insight into what happened to this bike.

-Tim


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:36 am
Posts: 63
There are better bikes out there for less money.
If you're looking for a non compromise machine check out A2J ROLO.
If you preffer BMC, check out the new TMR01 it is stiffer than Impec and cheaper.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4516
Location: Canada
Some guys just want something different. What's wrong with that?


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:09 pm
Posts: 1227
Location: In the industry
It's indeed a bit curious that the Impec came out with much fanfare but seems to have faded very quickly. I have seen very few people actually riding it at all.

With respect to manufacturer's marketing and claims, a grain of salt goes a long way, because most of it is attenuated or just balony, Biopace, Specialized's sex ads, Lynskey's twisted tube, McLaren Venge, etc.

Actually a lot of those claims do not hold water if you dig into it.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:36 am
Posts: 170
True. Hype is king in this industry. We have an army of marketers selling hardware in a multi-million dollar industry built around a product whose ultimate performance is 99% rider and 1% material goods. That's a lucrative 1%.

That said, members of this forum (myself included) drive sales of some of the most esoteric, exorbitant, and frivolous baubles the industry has to offer. If anyone, anywhere, actually has an Impec, you'd think he/she would be on WW or at least familiar with the site.

Impec owners, if you're out there, how's life with your semi-mythical machine?

-Tim


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:07 am
Posts: 91
We will have one next week or early the week after for a customer. I'll take some pics and let you know how it rides :)

finish on the nodes/lugs on the early versions apparently was a little "rough". for a frame with the price tag it has it seemed kinda a hard sell. apparently theyve improved it.

re reviews. cycling journalists. lol. they regurgitate the same baloney they say about every bike. granted some do have some real world riding credentials. from what ive heard it is actually a little on the stiff side.

i dont find it surprising at all the team would ride the SLR/TMR/GF01 over the IMPEC. marketing the bikes most people will actually buy makes a lot of sense, rather than having the whole team on a bike not many people can afford, and giving the perception the other bikes are inferior.

On top of which it may be a little bit stiff/harsh. which is totally fine for the type of riding its likely to be used for. rather than 200km tour stages.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:09 pm
Posts: 10
I have one, rides great, the front is very stiff under sprint loads, i really like the way it rides....


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:36 am
Posts: 170
Welcome, and thanks for joining this forum/thread.

It looks like you have an impressive stable of bikes. How would you compare the ride and response of the Impec to your Dogma and Time (RXR?) frames?

Since you seem to have your cockpit/saddle arrangements standardized (and wheels, to an extent), you probably have a good basis for judging the relative qualities of these bikes. Also, since we were speculating on lug/junction finish, how do you feel about the fit and finish of your Impec?

-Tim


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:09 pm
Posts: 10
Howdy, Thanks for the very kind welcome, its nice to be here.

Tim, Its real interesting the characteristics of each bike and as you mentioned I have similar wheel / cockpit combo on each ride, with exception my retro Merckx!

First, this is my second Impec, the first one a 2011 went back and this one arrived about 2 weeks ago and I noticed a great difference in finish. The "join" around the lugs was rough of the 2011 version, there were small irregular bubbles ( very small ) on the joint and on the shell itself. This one is silky smooth all over and really is what I expected for the cash I paid. I was looking for something different, I had ridden Time bikes for years and just having an RXRS Di2 stolen at the World Masters left me looking for something to replace it, I loved the RXRS as it suited my aggressive criterium attacking style unfortunately and not uncommonly Time did not have the new year production run until about 3 months after I wanted the new bike, so along came the Impec.

The ride of the Impec is as expected different from the other two bikes, its has a similar head stiffness to the Think 2, but the rear isn't as stiff, or at least it doesn't feel as stiff and I find gives a more compliant ride over the distances compared to the Think 2, however the Think 2 is very direct when you hit the Watts, they go where you put them no doubt about that. I prefer the Impec in ride quality over long distance ( keep in mind we are only comparing the Dogma and the Impec), but for one trait that i haven't yet got a handle on, its cornering ( impec) is very twitchy, whereas the Dogma sucks up the bumps on the corners the Impec finds them when its on its side under pressure, I am still trying tyre pressures with this frame so more time will tell. I have a buddy who also has one and he seems to think the same. The Impec come in at about 7.3kgs so I dont call it fat by any means, again lets not even mention the chubby Belgian beside it! LOL.

Then Time RXR Instinct ( cut down seat tube with a post) is a whole another story, its a supple ride every where, I use it for training and was a replacement for a Cofidis 595 Team Frame that i used as my training bike, they were incredibly similar in ride in so much as they were both smooth, almost soft, not in the sense that the frame flexed but the ride the was just plain smooth, the Time more so that the Look.

I hope I gave you an insight, come over and have a ride if you like....


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:07 am
Posts: 91
Image

mostly built it today. ride it tomorrow :)


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:33 am
Posts: 217
I think Pharmstrong nailed it with the injection molded lugs. Knowing a little bit about that business, tooling a mold could easily cost $20k+ per customized lug. If you change the angle of the top tube, that would require at least 3 new lugs? (2 for headtube, 1 for seat tube to tt connection?) which amortized over a very limited production run would be prohibitively expensive. I believe Colnago can cut and fit their tubes before they're glued together for their lugs.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:11 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 BMC Impec?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4516
Location: Canada
Ok, that's nice. Love the black-on-black...


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