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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:50 pm 
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dereksmalls wrote:
A local shop here that has been in operation for about 25 years recently closed due to them losing business from people buying stuff online cheap and then bringing it in for them to fit etc, myself included. When I found out that was one of the contributing factors I felt quite guilty.



Shouldn't the shop be grateful that you guys even brought it into them for them to charge you to build, overhaul or fit you to your bike? Rather than you doing it yourself or going to a competitor? Basically they still got to charge money for a service that they might not otherwise have gotten. If they can't be competitive on bike parts, then might need to reconsider how the market is working and adjust accordingly? Every other business in the economy has to do this.


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:50 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:08 pm 
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stephen@fibre-lyte wrote:
tranzformer wrote:
nathanong87 wrote:
but some shops believe the way to combat this economy is to charge MSRP and keep costs high... imho cutting prices down, being kind, and prompt might go a long way. [ideally at least]


I agree. I wonder how successful a LBS could be (in the right market with a large cycling community) if they actually sold for the same price as the online shops. Go for the volume sold over the get as much money per sucker possible attitude. I have no idea, but I think they might do better. More people would buy local if the price was as competitive as online or within maybe 5% (would pay extra for the convenience of getting it right away). Otherwise, LBS in general are a big big rip off.


Ironically, my LBS sells around 75-80 percent of their parts online or so I'm told. The customer service is fantastic in the shop and I use them because they are so good and their in shop prices compete favourably with online prices. I think all those who say that they'd use their LBS if the prices were cheaper may be kidding themselves. If you know how to put together a bike, then the convenience of sitting at a computer at night and ordering is far easier than calling in the local bike shop, even if it's just down the road. The advantage of the LBS is to those who don't know how to put a bike together, or to those who want to try on clothing, or to those who need advice. I'd say most people who come onto weight weenies would still shop online even if their LBS prices were lower.


your LBS saw the writing on the wall and realigned themselves. most should follow this path. my gripe is that my LBS doesn't really sell anything i would buy, the exception is tires, tubes, and lubes. even the clothing is common to most shops around. this is why i think they are destined to failure. selling what others are selling nearby doesn't really give them an edge...which is why most go online because of it.

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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:28 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
53x12 wrote:
dereksmalls wrote:
A local shop here that has been in operation for about 25 years recently closed due to them losing business from people buying stuff online cheap and then bringing it in for them to fit etc, myself included. When I found out that was one of the contributing factors I felt quite guilty.



Shouldn't the shop be grateful that you guys even brought it into them for them to charge you to build, overhaul or fit you to your bike? Rather than you doing it yourself or going to a competitor? Basically they still got to charge money for a service that they might not otherwise have gotten. If they can't be competitive on bike parts, then might need to reconsider how the market is working and adjust accordingly? Every other business in the economy has to do this.


That is true. The crazy thing is it is cheaper to buy the parts from CRC, PBK, Wiggle, Sigma and generally any UK online store etc and ship to New Zealand than buy from an online store or LBS in NZ!

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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:41 pm 
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^ Which tells you something about what the distributors are doing to the bike market in NZ. Obviously I don't know the specifics, but either the taxes and import tariffs are killing the bike industry, the middle men (distributors) are taking too large of a cut, or bikes shops are up-charging too much.


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:43 am 
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It doesn't really tell you anything about the bike industry in NZ, other than for some reason parts are more expensive than in the UK (which I find really hard to fathom, I thought we were overcharged!!). Do you have any examples @dereksmalls?

Oddly, New Zealand wine is at least twice as expensive in the UK as it is in New Zealand, probably due to shipping and UK bicycle parts are usually at least 1.5 times more expensive than the equivalent US parts (from major companies. not European bespoke companies) so we don't get it that easy!


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:53 am 
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Sure it does. It tells you either taxes/import tariffs are higher, or the distributor/bike shop is taking a larger cut of the pie. Not much else to it. Increase in prices has to come somewhere down the line.


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:00 am 
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland
I can't comment for New Zealand, but I worked in an LBS in Australia for a while and the trade prices there were about 30% higher than in the UK. To the point where it was cheaper for us to buy some stuff from CRC/Wiggle than it was to buy it from our distributors.... Being outwith the UK you also get the bonus of not having to pay the 20% VAT so it's even cheaper than buying it in the UK.


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:11 am 
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Location: New Zealand
dereksmalls wrote:
That is true. The crazy thing is it is cheaper to buy the parts from CRC, PBK, Wiggle, Sigma and generally any UK online store etc and ship to New Zealand than buy from an online store or LBS in NZ!


Having had a look at NZ Wholesale prices in the past I can say that often the CRC, PBK, Wiggle prices are comparable. Its not exactly the LBS's fault they then have to add money to this to make a living.


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:47 pm 
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53x12 wrote:
Sure it does. It tells you either taxes/import tariffs are higher, or the distributor/bike shop is taking a larger cut of the pie. Not much else to it. Increase in prices has to come somewhere down the line.


All it tells you is one of the following;

OEM sale prices to NZ are higher than anywhere else or;
Freight charges by manufacturers is high to NZ or;
NZ don't sell enough to warrant lower prices or;
Import duties to NZ are high or;
Distributor mark ups are high or;
Retailer mark ups are high.

It doesn't tell you which of those it is. The increased prices do have to come in somewhere down the line but how do you know where that increase originates?


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:40 pm 
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I buy about 90% of my bike spending from my LBS. They give me discounts, but they don't normally equate to online, although they've done me some great deals on wheels.

Reasoning is they go beyond the norm for me. I'm away from the UK most of the time, but they organise many things for me including resprays, polishing parts, anodising etc. The other thing is that I can afford to pay the higher prices and would hate for my LBS not to be there; and I'd be lost without their bike building skills, which I'm lacking in.


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Its frustrating that most lbs carry the same old boring guff. Whilst altura and endura make some reasonable gear it doesn't get the pulse racing. I suppose only online retailers can carry volume and variance of stock that most of us ww's demand. The good ones will go out of their way to compete in terms of price and service but as more and more people shop online for a wide range of kit i can't see many new succesful lbs entering the market.


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:22 pm 
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and this is what happens......

http://www.farnhamcycles.co.uk/Scripts/ ... closed.asp


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:06 am 
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ITT: (mostly) people who don't understand the business.

(nice) shops don't make much money on labor. Some survive solely on labor, but they are usually one to two man operations that are struggling to get by. Their inventory will be even smaller than most brick and mortar shops.

The purpose of having a service department and stocking parts is almost exclusively customer satisfaction. Many people like to purchase things from businesses that treat them well and are knowledgeable, and a good service department is an excellent way of making sure clothing and new bike sales continue. Gets the word of mouth out to new cyclists, as well.

The shops I've worked at, and frequented before I was a wrench were friendly places where I could test ride new bikes, get advice, talk bikes, find out why my ride wasn't working as good as it should. As a customer, I needed a place like that; a cool place to hang out and spend some money if I could afford it.

On the flip side, I don't understand clothing stores. The added cost isn't worth it. I don't really want to try on clothes all day, and I don't want to talk to the staff about threads. Hence: I buy my stuff online. The value, for me, isn't there.

The model shops are faced with now is about attaching additional value to the brick-n-mortar location. Lowering prices is a losing proposition.


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:04 am 
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I always go to my local bike shop, but only to try things on etc. I then buy it online. Oh...and try to take as much time from employees as possible by asking questions and advice.


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:04 am 


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 Post subject: Re: LBS vs. online shops
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:53 am
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
I was an online shopper, until I found a good LBS. Now, even at the peril of my hip pocket, I support them whenever possible. Hands-down best service I've seen in Adelaide. Helps that they support weenie-ism. Tune distributors (amongst other things), and very highly regarded mechanics.

Shout out to BMCR in Waymouth St. I recommend them to anyone and everyone I talk about bikes to.

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