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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:57 pm
Posts: 652
Location: NYC
Permon wrote:
I also took a picture of the cup. The contact area on the cup is only 4,5mm.


Permon, this is interesting...looks like Cervelo changes the BB design on the 2012 frames. My 2011 R5 has a completely sealed BB shell...the only hole in it is for the cable guide mount on the underside. It appears your shell is cut out on the inside and access to your chain stays. Indeed the required 13mm contact area is compromised. Huh...I wonder why they changed the design?

EM3


Image

Image

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My 2013 Cervelo R5


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 494
em3 wrote:
Permon wrote:
I also took a picture of the cup. The contact area on the cup is only 4,5mm.


Permon, this is interesting...looks like Cervelo changes the BB design on the 2012 frames. My 2011 R5 has a completely sealed BB shell...the only hole in it is for the cable guide mount on the underside. It appears your shell is cut out on the inside and access to your chain stays. Indeed the required 13mm contact area is compromised. Huh...I wonder why they changed the design?

EM3





EM3 thank YOu for the pics.
The only thing I know is, that R5 is produced in a different way. So, I think that each R3 has the "open BB". If your experience is different, please let me know. It would be very very strange.

EDIT: I found some pics on internet showing BB of R3. The R3 BB is really open, not like R5.


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Last edited by Permon on Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:04 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:08 am 
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Posts: 494
Calnago wrote:
I hereby dub thee Permon The Persistent. I commend you on your efforts but at this point I'd say it's the manufacturer's fault and be sending it back. You've given it more than a good college try. Good luck.


Calnago, yes the frame is not OK and I should send it back. The reason why I play around with it is, that Cervelo changed paintjob for 2013, so probably the refund wold be the 2013 SILVER one. And the silver R3 looks HORRIBLE. I love the paitjob I have, that is why I stick with the frame and trying to find some solution :noidea:
I know, stupid.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 494
Hello,

drawing for adaptor BSA > BBright finished.
Part will be made by friday.

Interesting thing is, that the diameter of Campa cup is 46,01mm (meassured by profesional laboratory).
Cervelo says in (their drawing) that BB is only 45,86 - 45,96mm!!!
So, Campa cup is even bigger than the hole :shock: But the measured cup was instaled in the frame :noidea: It really looks like Cervelo and Campa are not able to produce their stuff in tolerances :twisted:

Also notice, that there will be made 3 small grooves in the adaptor to help Loctite stay in place (not being pushed during pressing). It should help.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 1045
Location: Toronto
Permon wrote:
Interesting thing is, that the diameter of Campa cup is 46,01mm (meassured by profesional laboratory).
Cervelo says in (their drawing) that BB is only 45,86 - 45,96mm!!!
So, Campa cup is even bigger than the hole :shock: But the measured cup was instaled in the frame :noidea: It really looks like Cervelo and Campa are not able to produce their stuff in tolerances :twisted:


Drawing looks good to me.

Why you criticize Campy? Looks like they cleverly anticipated that the Cervelo BB would be out of spec :lol:

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:21 am
Posts: 23
So i spoke to a specialized dealer today,
With them now releasing some Campagnolo bikes it seams specialized have made there own pf30 cups for campy.
Sounds like you take the bearings of your cranks put them in these cups and the istall it all.
I will be getting them this week and let you all know how this goes.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 1955
Location: NoVA/DC
[quote="Permon"]Hello,

drawing for adaptor BSA > BBright finished.
Part will be made by friday.

Interesting thing is, that the diameter of Campa cup is 46,01mm (meassured by profesional laboratory).
Cervelo says in (their drawing) that BB is only 45,86 - 45,96mm!!!
So, Campa cup is even bigger than the hole :shock: But the measured cup was instaled in the frame :noidea: It really looks like Cervelo and Campa are not able to produce their stuff in tolerances :twisted:
That's called an interference fit. The frame will stretch a little, the cup may compress a little. Lots of things do that, traditional headset cups come to mind. The crown race seat of a 1" fork is typically 26.4mm, you'd ream it to 26.5mm.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:02 pm
Posts: 16
Permon wrote:
em3 wrote:
Permon wrote:
I also took a picture of the cup. The contact area on the cup is only 4,5mm.


Permon, this is interesting...looks like Cervelo changes the BB design on the 2012 frames. My 2011 R5 has a completely sealed BB shell...the only hole in it is for the cable guide mount on the underside. It appears your shell is cut out on the inside and access to your chain stays. Indeed the required 13mm contact area is compromised. Huh...I wonder why they changed the design?
EM3



EM3 thank YOu for the pics.
The only thing I know is, that R5 is produced in a different way. So, I think that each R3 has the "open BB". If your experience is different, please let me know. It would be very very strange.

EDIT: I found some pics on internet showing BB of R3. The R3 BB is really open, not like R5.


Reason might be that R3 and R5 have different molds, quote from here:

http://redkiteprayer.com/2012/07/cervelo-r5/

The R5s both get a one-piece front triangle, but they aren’t quite the same. The R5ca does have an interesting feature to it. The mold to make its one-piece front triangle isn’t exactly the same as the R5VWD. Once the engineers at Cervelo were convinced they’d gotten the geometry right for the R5, they fixed the saddle location and then slackened the seat angle to enable them to achieve the same saddle position while using a lighter zero-setback seatpost. That is why if you look at the geometry chart for the R5ca and the R5VWD, you’ll see they have the same reach, but the R5ca has longer top tubes at each size.

By contrast, the R3 has completely different molds and is made using some less expensive materials than the R5VWD. The R3 has a separate BB that is then bonded and over-wrapped to the seat tube, down tube and chainstays. Laying up a one-piece front triangle is considerably more difficult, especially at the bottom bracket. However, the extra time and work required result in a frame that is just as stiff as the R3 but 10 percent lighter. The R5ca realizes an even greater gain: a 56cm R5ca weighs in at 650g.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:25 am
Posts: 750
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Give this guy a medal. It is not the Camapg PF adapters, it is sub-standard frame building.

snappypants wrote:
I had this exact problem on an aluminum frame with a PF30 BB. In order for the Campy cups to stay put, the BB has to be faced very, very precisely. If the faces are not exactly parallel, the axle will force the cups to orient themselves to each other (not the BB faces), and a gap will appear between the cup and the BB. The tricky part is the cups can be pressed in so they are flush, giving the appearance of a nicely faced BB, but after a few rides the gap will appear. I pulled the cups, refaced the BB, and it has been perfect and silent ever since. You have to be careful and not remove so much material that the BB width falls out of Campy's specs for the UT axle. There are a lot of high end custom frames successfully using PF30, but I definitely prefer threaded BB's.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:21 am
Posts: 23
Today i installed the new Specialized campy kit,
You remove the campy bearings,
Push specialized bearings into the frame cup,
Then install the new spec kit cup's then put in the cranks and do them up.
So far so good, lets see how 100k tomorrow goes.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 494
dayne wrote:
Today i installed the new Specialized campy kit,
You remove the campy bearings,
Push specialized bearings into the frame cup,
Then install the new spec kit cup's then put in the cranks and do them up.
So far so good, lets see how 100k tomorrow goes.


Any pictures?
Thank You.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:57 am
Posts: 43
If not mistaken the Specialized cups will only fit with the OSBB.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 1045
Location: Toronto
Permon, not to shoot down your idea, but looking at this PF30 to BSA adapter Image I thought "isn't Permon just recreating the right half of this?"

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 494
bikerjulio wrote:
Permon, not to shoot down your idea, but looking at this PF30 to BSA adapter Image I thought "isn't Permon just recreating the right half of this?"

¨
Yeah, I know about this one. It is not available here in Czech republic. I would have to buy it on ebay. It costs 39,- $ + 30$ shipping costs. Ridiculous.
My adaptor was made for free and has larger contact area 1 grooves for Loctite. Much better product by my opinion.
I will have the adaptor today, I will post pics.


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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:21 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 977
Location: Aix en Provence
Permon wrote:
bikerjulio wrote:
Permon, not to shoot down your idea, but looking at this PF30 to BSA adapter Image I thought "isn't Permon just recreating the right half of this?"

¨
Yeah, I know about this one. It is not available here in Czech republic. I would have to buy it on ebay. It costs 39,- $ + 30$ shipping costs. Ridiculous.
My adaptor was made for free and has larger contact area 1 grooves for Loctite. Much better product by my opinion.
I will have the adaptor today, I will post pics.


I have this shitty adaptor and it just does not work with campy cranks.


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