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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Location: Hamar, Norway
Geoff wrote:
Here is a peice on Francois Marie that I thought you guys might find interesting: http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/i ... hop-35668/

And even at FMB tubulars are stored on clincher rims. What IS the world coming to? :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:00 pm 
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Hi,

Note also that Francois has put on his sweater inside out. Too much glue on it for the pictures? :P

Ciao, ;)

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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:00 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:41 pm 
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Location: New York
fdegrove wrote:
Hi,

Quote:
Mavic makes some plastic tire levers to help you un-stick the tire from the rim.


Hmmmm....Interesting. You wouldn't have a pic or a link for these?

Ciao, ;)


You get these when you buy the helium tubular rims. They are the wrench to tighten and loosen the hubs and remove the tires

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:18 pm 
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Let's take a proper clincher, Veloflex Master 23. You mount it correctly on the rim, some air and voilà... you spin the wheel, close one eye and you see the thing is round and straight. Now my question is (and no, not trying to start another clincher-tubular war, I ride tubulars myself...) do you ever get your tubulars to spin as round as a clincher? To be honest it might be a matter of a lot of practice but since I am back at this (I raced as a boy, back when tubular glue was red...) I think I managed to have ONE tubular I was happy
with. This was a Veloflex Roubaix from a batch of three I got at the same time. Not going to comment about the Sprinters I had before...rocks with sausage shape, bumps all around. Yes, I pre-stretch my tires, countersink the valve hole, stretch downwards the tire when mounting it. I even cut off carefully the base tape overlap next to the valve. Still the percentage of tires being "round" (meaning you do not feel the tire bump when riding over smooth surfaces) seems to be pretty low, not going to say like winning lottery but...
This guy amazes me :shock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Y2wCgDmFM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He does not even check the tire after mounting it. Do they get the good batches and we get the crap?
When I was a boy I do not remember my Razesa jumping around because of the tires...and we did not over think things too much.
You bought the best tire you could afford (In may case Wolbers, some bastards had cash for Vittorias) and off you go.
Is proper tubular manufacturing kind of lost art?
Sorry for the rambling. Any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Any thoughts?

Yeah, you had lower expectations back then, plus a faded and selective (the good things) memory


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:05 pm 
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Hi,

Quote:
Sorry for the rambling.


Go on rambling. It's kind of funny..... :P

All in all I think most higher end tubulars are as round as can be, stuff on youtube can't be trusted and Razesas didn't jump all over the place because they and their assosciated wheels were way too heavy to be impressed by a small imbalance anyhow.... :mrgreen:

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:38 am 
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Any opinions on the following three tires? They are going on a disc and 60 front for triathlon; both wheels are of the older narrower kind, so prefer tires to be no wider than 22mm.

Vittoria Corsa Evo CX 21mm
Mavic Yksion (called 23, measure just under 22mm)
Michelin Boyau SC 21mm

Cost wise, they are very similar. The Michelin may be a touch cheaper but its also the one I've read the least about. The Mavic has some decent RR, as does the Vittoria.

I think they are all made in the same factory so maybe its hardly worth much more thought.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:40 am 
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I have used the Vittoria CX off-and-on for over 20 years. They have always served me very well. The newer models are still quite nice. I actually had opportunity to play around with the Mavic tires recently. They are made by Vittoria, but have a distinctly 'Mavic' feel about them, if you know what I mean. They seem decent.

As you can imagine, I am still going to recommend that you go with a nice set of FMB or Dugast tubulars as race-day equipment...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:50 pm 
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Location: it's raining, it must be uk
just had to replace a tyre, veloflex carbon, and as usual the (latex?) coating on the basetape has largely stayed stuck to the rim, see pics below

tyre had two thin coats, 24 hours apart and a day to dry before mounting, rim had three coats, 24 hours apart etc., then a final coat to mount

aside from wondering if i'm doing something wrong for the latex to do this, it always happens, there's so much of the stuff, does it impair the quality of the bond for the next tyre?

Attachment:
rimlatex.jpg
rimlatex.jpg [ 39.61 KiB | Viewed 955 times ]

Attachment:
tyretape.jpg
tyretape.jpg [ 29.53 KiB | Viewed 955 times ]


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Hi,

Not many manufacturers still use a coat of latex to protect the base tape from rot. It used to be common practice to scrape away this coat prior to gluing the tubular.

As the second pic clearly shows the cement sticks well to this coat of latex. So much so that the bond between the latex coat and the base tape is compromised.
The next tyre would stick to the rim just as this one did but you obviously want to scrape away the latex coat off the base tape first. Be careful not to damage the cotton fibres though.

Note also that some manufacturers use a product that looks and feels similar to latex but is in fact a fungicide (Vittoria) or a water blocking sealant (Aquaseal). These coatings are best left alone.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:06 pm 
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Location: it's raining, it must be uk
yes i scraped the latex off one before, not one of my favourite jobs!

but opinion seemed divided on whether to do it or not, so i didn't bother on the tyres i got since


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:06 am 
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allepunta wrote:
Let's take a proper clincher, Veloflex Master 23....(snipped text). Any thoughts?


I'll bite :-)

I have only just started riding tubular tyres (six months ago) and have mounted no more than 4 sets, on two separarte wheel sets, add/remove etc ...

My first set (Challenge Strada on Nemesis rims), not so good, a small bump (radially out of true, introducing the bump) and slightly twisted (not noticeable). After a handful of rides I removed the tubs, reglued the rims, trimmed around valve hole and replaced. Used a bit more glue and mounting was better, had more time to position the tyre, not perfect but heaps better, tiny hop in rim not noticeable, 1-2mm twist again, nothing to worry about.

The second set (Veloflex Criterium on Enve 6.7 rims) Went like a dream, No hop, 1-2mm twist.

The next set again went well, no hop or twist.

Now, I may be lucky but then I may just think about each stage as I am doing it and work out a way to do it better next time.

I was guilty of using a tiny smearing of glue when mouting and it left me no time to position the tub when trying to move it into final position. Don't get me wrong, I'm not using so much so that it splurges out of the sides when the tyre is inflated but enough for it to smoosh about a bit easier than if I was using a very thin layer to mount.

Had no problems at all.

I'm a tubular convert.

I still keep a set of clinchers for emergencies but I can honestly say they have not emerged from the wheelbag since I started riding on tubular tyres.

There is no comparison to me and I used to ride good clinchers (Vittoria Corsa SC) on (Vittoria) latex tubes.

Tubular tyres may take a bit more work to mount than clinchers but once on take probably less looking after than clinchers. I puncture in 2,500 miles. Swapped out for a spare at the side of the road, took about 5 mins and I was up and going again.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:36 pm 
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You're not lucky, just dedicated and learning! Tubular tires have been installed in basically the same fashion for decades and decades. The process just requires a little care and experience to complete perfectly every time. Good work.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:58 am 
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I will typically just remove whatever glue is left over on the rim with naptha. Not all of it, but whatever is left over makes a nice smooth surace. I've mounted tires like the one above (with some glue ripped off, some still intact) with no issue. At the end of the day, the glue molds back together under most circumstances.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:51 pm 
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Location: Sunshine Coast QLD
Interesting way the bloke in the youtube vid put them on. I always just sat down and place the wheel across my legs so the spokes were between my toes and pull the tub on that way. :thumbup:

Then pumped to 100psi and checked for any off centre wobbles, if none, rolled a few rotations on the ground while applying downward pressure and then inflated to 120psi. :beerchug:

Foo

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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:51 pm 


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