USADA Banned Armstrong new Doping Allegations

[artray]

horse wrote "There is such hoo-hah about PEDs"

You tell that to familys of the numerous Body builders and athletes who have died from the long term effects of steroids. Some PED's can leave you with health issues all your life . I think it's better to know what you are talking about before you make such a generalization .

Hammertime 2

[horse]

horse wrote "There is such hoo-hah about PEDs"

You tell that to familys of the numerous Body builders and athletes who have died from the long term effects of steroids. Some PED's can leave you with health issues all your life . I think it's better to know what you are talking about before you make such a generalization .

Hammertime 2

So you're worried about peoples' health are you?
I see.

[HammerTime2]

Not exactly a great shock, but SCA Promotions is demanding Armstrong pay (return to) them USD12 million http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-3 ... llion.html .

[stella-azzurra]

He'll do that when he gets new sponsorship next year. Apparently the sales and marketing folks notoriously have a short memory.

[sawyer]

Trot along, trot along, trot along Josie ... trot along, trot along ... oh, sorry, this isn't rhyme time?

LOL horse ... you've made me side with artray ... sport has to have rules horse. Without rules the concept of sport is meaningless. Fine for you to be in favour of a "who dares wins" free for all, but that doesn't make breaking the rules to win ok.

I don't get the "thinking with your balls" comment (other than it sounding cool!) ... in dark corners of the internet, yes, but on WWs??

[jsinclair]

Sawyer, i think you should have a sockpuppetry award as well.

i nominate horse, rick, 53x12 and jwolf

[Mr.Gib]

A bit of silliness but ouch....


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cy ... y/1671535/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dereksmalls]

Even better the South Park episode just aired poking fun at Livestrong et al. So many of Armstrong's quotes and mannerisms used in it. It was very well done.

[KH1]

Sorry for the confusion KH1 - the "I'm out" was in reference to Rabobank, not myself. I have nowhere in particular to go, nor am I special enough to use such a knob phrase in reference to myself.
I like having intelligent conversations with people on these topics. I hate that we get the opportunity to discuss real life events.

No need to apologise
I don't mind a bit of reasoned debate either.
Whilst I agree that there is a risk of misuse of the funds provided by sponsors. That was not the proposition I was putting forward - which began to get lost over the course of some meaningless input and wildly irrelevant posting by a serial offender on this forum. It took some effort to try and keep it on track but by the time you decided to chime in I'm afraid the goose was well and truly honking.....

The basic proposition for both of my original points was that if you ask people to perform feats of virtual impossibility you will run the risk of them looking for ways to acheive them outside of the rules. The more difficult the event the more likely that contestants will try to cut corners to win and in the case of a grand tour be there at the end to support the overall contender. In fact it is my proposition that the grand tours actually encourage doping the most simply because they are the hardest to even finish. Now how much that affects directly or indirectly the use of drugs in shorter races is open for further and seperate discussion.
I don't think we need to go over the funding question again. The only thing I will say on misuse of the funds is that it probably happens sometimes with the knowledge of the sponsors and sometimes without. That doesn't take away anything from the proposition of the original point. Riders who are funded can train more and should therefore need less 'illegal enhancement'

[stella-azzurra]

I don't mind a bit of reasoned debate either.
Whilst I agree that there is a risk of misuse of the funds provided by sponsors. That was not the proposition I was putting forward - which began to get lost over the course of some meaningless input and wildly irrelevant posting by a serial offender on this forum. It took some effort to try and keep it on track but by the time you decided to chime in I'm afraid the goose was well and truly honking.....

How am I a serial offender? Is it because I disagreed with what you think is the real reason pro cyclists dope? Or is it because I come off as some wanker on here that blurts out the first thing that pops into his head? You probably think the latter and that's fine.

I simply said that maybe some one else can help you understand my point that's because my response was well though out as is supported by this forum and has been stated in various documentaries by pro cyclists that actually live and breath the sport. Unfortunately you fail to understand simple well though out sentences.

Frankly speaking your idea that pro cyclists dope because the race or event is too hard is utter BS.
That is my point and I have supplied you with factual statements of why I think what you said was BS in my view.

Since you are explicitly singling me out on this forums as a "serial offender" I'd like to know why.
Why am I a "serial offender"? Let's hear it.

[artray]

KH1 , Athletes dope to win a 100m race. They dope to win . Track cyclists dope,there not riding up and down mountains all day . I think you do have some kind of point i.e in the old days with riders drinking and speeding, but in those days the riders would be riding into the night . Its where the doping culture started . It's way more sophisticated these days and you don't need to dope to complete a grand tour . There have been many charity riders who have rode every stage . Doping gives you an edge just that little bit more so that you can try and win and not just compete at the highest level . All sports encourage doping if a certain athlete has set his or her mind on victory and all the money and prestige that comes with it and it keeps the sponsors happy who pay most of the bills
I also would like to join stella-azzurra and declare myself a serial killer ,eeerrrrrrrrrr I mean serial poster with kellogs common sense .

[horse]

Trot along, trot along, trot along Josie ... trot along, trot along ... oh, sorry, this isn't rhyme time?

LOL horse ... you've made me side with artray ... sport has to have rules horse. Without rules the concept of sport is meaningless. Fine for you to be in favour of a "who dares wins" free for all, but that doesn't make breaking the rules to win ok.

I don't get the "thinking with your balls" comment (other than it sounding cool!) ... in dark corners of the internet, yes, but on WWs??

Tut, tut.. you misunderstand.
The rules' in the wrong place. Not particularly condoning "free for all." I would have thought it implicit in my post.
You see it's not so simple as that.

One further point. People condemn "doping" but actually know almost nothing about the precise processes involved, quantities and what the desired outcomes of the procedures are, so forth. With due respect to everyone on this thread, the "cheating" most would recognize would be catching a lift, or perhaps observational aid at best. The medical tests which rely on biochemistry are done in laboratory and ongoing studies often-at-times open questions.

The whole drama with this case seen in the media and not least the internets has been savage. It's been a source of much excitement for some people. But as a cyclist you'd be doing well if you can remotely achieve anything beyond the sport. Forget biochemical analysis of another's performance.

My advice to some people on this thread is to stop posting. Yes I'm looking at you Artray.

[artray]

horse wrote "There is such hoo-hah about PEDs" Your exact words

I used to be a body builder when I was younger . I have seen the effects that some PEDS can have and it can be pretty bad. You being so casual with the comment above shows you have no idea how much damage some peds can do . I have seen the damage they can do .I have that experience . It's something that was real and not from reading a book.


horse wrote
" So you're worried about peoples' health are you?
I see. "
Thats just an comment to make.

I have made my point move on . giddy up

[horse]

What you're talking about is substance abuse.

By PEDs you're not expecting the cyclist to down an entire bottle of pills. Maybe you did.

[tymon_tm]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstro ... ng-experts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The case is certainly unique in its scale but it's not a reason not to apply or even ignore the (anti-doping) rules, as we've seen