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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:58 am 
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Location: Estonia
rainerhq wrote:
Need little help here.
LBS built me wheels. I have about 1000km on them, but the rear wheel has no lateral stiffness. Brakes are almost fully open and there is still rub, when standing and pedaling bit harder. With hand I can move rim towards brake pads 5mm or so.
HongFu 50mm tubular rim
Dati hub 24H
Laser spokes NDS: radial, heads in; DS 2x, interlaced spokes.
My weight 67kg.

Got good answers from here, but another idea...
Could this problem be because the wheelbuilder did not hold the Laser spoke in place, when tightening the nipple and did not use grease on spoke threads? So he did not eliminate the winding. When wheel is in use, spokes are turning back to straight position and also lose tension.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:47 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
When the spokes are wound up they making pinging noises as they loosen. Each spokes only loosens once, usually starting as soon as you start riding the first time. Wound up spokes would not cause a flexy wheel.

Lateral stiffness is affected by the hub's flange spacing, the number of spokes, rim stiffness, spoke thickness, and lacing pattern.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:55 pm 
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Location: Estonia
Thanks eric.
Will let LBS to rebuild it tomorrow:
Novatec F172SB hub,
L.C.F 38mm
R.C.F 19mm
Race spokes, 2x both sides.
Wheel will be 110g heavier, but it comes mainly from hub. New spokes will add 32g

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:25 pm 
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Ah, I didn't see the Dati hub. It's got good DS spacing but not much NDS spacing. That means the tension is less unequal but the wheel is not so stiff. I have the same problem with an American Classic wheel I have. Even though it's 32h I can bounce the rim off the brake pads at will, and I don't weigh that much.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:57 am 
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kavitator wrote:
i have no problems with unwinded spokes...just looking for oppinions about soldering. I get wire and i dont know if it is worthy doing this :)

My opinion - don't bother with it. All it does is stop spokes flapping around if they break.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:37 pm 
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Thanks to stopping me from soldering :)

Bitex hubs (rear) RAF12 and sapim CX ray , 2x cross - will it need spoke washer on hub flange (under spoke head)?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:04 am 
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If you're lacing radial heads out I'd consider it. Otherwise its not needed.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:19 am 
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I meant to say thanks a few pages back for the advice about replacing the failing alu nipples on my front Soul S3.0SL with brass. I've now rebuilt the wheel taking the weight from 629g to 640g including veloplugs - definitely worth it for the confidence that they will survive salty winter roads. It remains to be seen how long it will be before the rear goes the same way - I wonder if I ought to replace the nipples preemptively...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:35 am 
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Got the rebuilt wheel from LBS. Can´t test it right now, because it´s winter already :evil:


Attachments:
IMGP0901.JPG
IMGP0901.JPG [ 151.31 KiB | Viewed 486 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:58 am 
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
I've got a question about nipple length:

For the H Plus Son Archytpe, would you use 14 or 12mm nipples? I was considering using 14mm as they look like they have a very sharp profile which may prevent the 12mm nipple from poking through properly. Suggestions?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:41 pm 
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verycreativeusername wrote:
I've got a question about nipple length:

For the H Plus Son Archytpe, would you use 14 or 12mm nipples? I was considering using 14mm as they look like they have a very sharp profile which may prevent the 12mm nipple from poking through properly. Suggestions?


I like building with the 14mm over the 12s, but for no real reason at all. I just like the look of them a bit more.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:50 am 
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Just have a question about which hubs to choose. I'm building them on Kinlin XR200 24/28 rims with CX-ray and i weight 69kg / 150lbs.

I'm split between the Dati hubs and Tune Mig/Mag.

Dati set: 260g / 130€
Tune Mig/Mag set: 249g / 390€

Dati hubs cost roughly 1/3 of the Tune's and only weight 10g more, so is what more do you get with the Tune's for the 2/3 extra, other than the 10g?
Better bearings, smoother, stronger? Is it worth 260€?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:14 am 
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
I've got a lacing pattern q:

16:8 (2:1) vs standard 24

I was wondering if there were any real advantages of this lacing pattern compared to a standard 24 pattern. I originally thought it may have been marketing BS but then I read Sheldon's ad/article about "Power Wheels" (yes, that could be marketing BS too). Now I'm not sure what to believe. Can anyone explain to me what the "theoretical" benefits are, and which ones are noticeable in the real world? Currently, the only benefit I can think of is equal tensions on both DS and NDS, but I don't see how that is a REAL benefit (if you lace radial on NDS on a standard 24)

Thanks

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:22 am 
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2:1 lacing is often used to even out the tension balance between the drive side and non drive side of the rear wheel. The idea is for light rims with low tension limits the NDs tension can be low enough to cause nipple unwinding (NDS) and premature spoke failure. Also low NDS tension means on rim with low radial stifness lumps and bumps in the road can cause NDS spookes to go slack. Also low NDS tension can result in NDS going slack during sprints and the therefore loss of wheel stifness and the rim bouncing of the pads. All of this will not do spaoke life any good.

The problem is made worth by hubs with poor flange spacings. Shimano 11 speed hubs will make all these issues even worse.

So if you use a rims that can take 1200-1300N DS side and even if you are using a campag compatible 11 speed hub the tension balance is sufficent on a 24 spoke rear wheel to build something relaible.

If you use a rim that can take only 1000N and then use BHS hub or some other with poor drive side flange spacing then that combination may require 2:1 lacing if the rider is not really light. Of course NDS spokes contribute alot to wheel stiffness given there high bracing angle. So reducing the number of these by half means loosing lateral wheel stiffness. Proably best to use a thicker guage spoke NDS for 2:1 lacing or use a stiff rim. rFlexy rms like the Alpha 340, XR-200, Aerohead e.t.c are proably not the best choice for 2:1 lacing patterns.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:33 am 
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so basically a 2:1 lacing ratio is used to make up for a poor hub design or poor rim design?

Also, I read that you say the BHS hubs have a bad flange spacing, is this all of them or which ones are the ones with a bad Flange spacing? Could someone explain what a good flange spacing is and what a bad one is?

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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:33 am 


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