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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:04 pm 
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It was them Hyperon Ultra's. I was having a spin of wheels i would like to upgrade to in my local boutique LBS. I put the ultra to half a revolution and left it to spin back and forth under the leverage of the plastic security label. Coming back from cuddling the other wheels two mins later it was still going back and forth.

I doubt Voekler broke sweat.


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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:04 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Who do you think is riding clean?

Well, I did manage to take a shower yesterday morning before the hill climb. :no1:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:48 pm 
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dolophonic wrote:
Woah, people think Vokler is clean? talk about Donkey to thoroughbred !


Or everyone else just got a lot slower in the past few years.....


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:13 pm 
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SpoonMan wrote:
Our friend Mr. Phinney started out at Trek-Livestrong, and we know Lance's involvement - as well as the known doper Axel Merckx. Do we throw him under the bus as well?


Lance Armstrong is a cheater and an asshole, but I can't believe his U23 team had any systematic doping. Can you imagine the potential fallout from that? Helping kids to dope? The risk is too great and the reward too small.

Out of the current peloton, I'd have to put Phinney on the top of my "most likely clean list".

On the flip side, I wouldn't list *any* grand tour GC rider. Even Tejay and Ryder. In a three week race, it seems easy to cheat a little and get a solid boost. Hard to believe clean riders are getting a chance to shine.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:18 pm 
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ultyguy wrote:
dolophonic wrote:
Woah, people think Vokler is clean? talk about Donkey to thoroughbred !


Or everyone else just got a lot slower in the past few years.....


This.

Voeckler has been a consistent rider - in style and abilities - pretty much throughout his career. Recent years have shown the peloton slowing down. Voeckler doing better... yet it's still Tommy, training w/o a powermeter, rarely using a heart rate monitor, old school riding. Some people really hate his facial expressions or whatever, but he's a hell of a better rider than most people on this site and if anyone does get an opportunity to read the interviews (mostly in French, obviously) you'll find he's a really a genuine, stand up guy that has always fought against the omerta of the peloton.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:52 pm 
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jmrillion - Kind of my point. Guilt by association is a slippery slope. Everyone in this God-forsaken sport is linked to an ex-doper of some sort - so we can't assume just because 'this guy was working with that guy' that he's juicing.

Gilbert under Taus is hardly different to Phinney under Merckx, Armstrong, and now riding for a team owned by Rihs and with Hincapie and Ballan.

To be clear, I don't think Phinney would touch that stuff with a ten-foot barge pole - but if we're playing 6 Degrees of Obfuscation then that's where people end up.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 pm 
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Interesting article from Brad McGee in which he claims that FdJ and CSC both helped him remain clean. Perhaps CSC wasn't all that bad?

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/how ... 28aif.html

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:25 pm 
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SpoonMan wrote:
Who's riding clean? Well, I would guess:
Gilbert (God, I hope so)
Not Cancellara (Too much time on CSC for my liking)
Do recreational drugs (Boonen, probably Sagan) count?
Cavendish would surely weigh less if he was on something
I can't see Hushovd being clean. Just can't. Sprinters that can climb smell off to me. Chuck Degenkolb in there too. Oscar Freire can go in that basket too.
Matt Goss is clean IMHO, because he can't really climb, and to be honest, he's not a spectacular sprinter either. Kittel, Renshaw, Ciolek and those guys fit in there.
That list of riders that floated around after one of the grand tours with a suspicion level of doping (I'm assuming related to the bio-passport) was interesting. Didn't it put Cuddles on the same level as Armstrong - and Denis Menchov way way up there? Knowing what we know now - makes fascinating re-reading.
We reckon Rogers is going to get ditched by Sky (or vice versa), what about EBH? Talk about either the greatest natural talent in years, or...
That's my opinion anyway. And that's all it is.


Degenkolb and Hushovd were both phenomenal U23 TT'ers with Hushovd winning worlds. I bet their FTPs are pretty damn high and they have success in the sprints because they're fresher at the end of the race. Neither are snappy and I could see both being clean. Freire always was extremely good at positioning. Coulda been dirty, but again wasn't anything absurd.

For all his great natural talent EBH still hasn't won anything major either. And these guys aren't coming from obscurity to the limelight overnight.

I think Gilbert could have doped at Lotto, but isn't at BMC. He has consistently had the same style all of his career, but gotten a bit more saavy with his abilities. You used to see him try to battle it out in bunch sprints, attack very early on the Poggio, etc., but now he knows when to go and really does the same damn thing in almost every race.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:07 pm 
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It's interesting seeing how some of the best pro sprinters actually were dominant junior TT-ers as mentioned above. You can throw Kittel in there too. They didn't even know he could sprint until they saw hit wattage numbers on a practice lead out.

I hope Hushovd is clean, I want to believe...I wonder what Vaughters thinks.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:36 pm 
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given what we know is the us national team systematically doping really that unlikely

http://velonews.competitor.com/2000/12/ ... -speaks_79
Quote:
Greg Strock: Really, the question should be “Why two years?” because it’s been two years since I realized what really took place … the cause of the end of my career. When my cycling career ended, I put my energies into going to school and then med school. It was in my second year of med school, in my pharmacology class, that I actually started studying the things that had been done to me and that’s when it hit me.

For the duration of my time on the team, I was told things were “vitamins” and “extract of cortisone,” things to help me recover and cleanse my system. Every single time I asked, “Is this legal? Is this safe?” because up until that point, I’d never even taken a multi-vitamin, I don’t think. I just kinda ate well, trained and went with it. So, when needles started to get involved I was leery. It was repetitively preached to me that it was safe, legal and these were vitamins. I mean how can you question vitamins? And I had no idea that there was no such thing as “extract of cortisone.”

VN: How old were you at the time?

GS: Seventeen. All of these events took place in 1990, so I went from being 17 at the beginning of the season to 18 in the middle of the year.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:04 am 
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prendrefeu wrote:
ultyguy wrote:
dolophonic wrote:
Woah, people think Vokler is clean? talk about Donkey to thoroughbred !


Or everyone else just got a lot slower in the past few years.....


This.

Voeckler has been a consistent rider - in style and abilities - pretty much throughout his career. Recent years have shown the peloton slowing down. Voeckler doing better... yet it's still Tommy, training w/o a powermeter, rarely using a heart rate monitor, old school riding. Some people really hate his facial expressions or whatever, but he's a hell of a better rider than most people on this site and if anyone does get an opportunity to read the interviews (mostly in French, obviously) you'll find he's a really a genuine, stand up guy that has always fought against the omerta of the peloton.


+1. He's one guy who I could see telling the team doctor to go &@$ himself.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:51 am 
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prendrefeu wrote:
ultyguy wrote:
dolophonic wrote:
Woah, people think Vokler is clean? talk about Donkey to thoroughbred !


Or everyone else just got a lot slower in the past few years.....


This.

Voeckler has been a consistent rider - in style and abilities - pretty much throughout his career. Recent years have shown the peloton slowing down. Voeckler doing better... yet it's still Tommy, training w/o a powermeter, rarely using a heart rate monitor, old school riding. Some people really hate his facial expressions or whatever, but he's a hell of a better rider than most people on this site and if anyone does get an opportunity to read the interviews (mostly in French, obviously) you'll find he's a really a genuine, stand up guy that has always fought against the omerta of the peloton.


I think Voeckler is clean, and i think not wearing a heart rate sensor, for such a good climber, is a key to success in some stages to win them. Great rider. I don't like him though, but that doesn't matter.

Contador i´m not sure... but he won both giro and vuelta clean so, if i had to bet my life, i would say he is clean. schleck is clean, cancellara, cadel evans... Wiggins, Froome. With the biologic passport and current race tempo, I think most of the current winners are clean. Actually, I think the test machines now are beeping too much; 0,00000000005 of clembuterol for Contador, Frank Schleck for I don't know what diuretical medicine... I think current tests are too unfair.

The spanish rider recently banned, from rabobank, that guy was clearly doped... I think current riders are all clean. Good riders who doped in the past, like vinokurov, are now riding clean and winning too, like vinokurov... that means most of them can win clean, so they ride clean.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:26 am 
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Velofreak wrote:
Contador i´m not sure... but he won both giro and vuelta clean
And you know he won the giro and the vuelta clean, how?
Velofreak wrote:
so, if i had to bet my life, i would say he <Contador> is clean.
You're quite the gambling man.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:42 am 
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artray wrote:
Name a rider who you think has not doped. Just a name no chat. I will start off with Armstrong :lol: Joking :wink:

Lemond


In the current pro peloton .... Greipel.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:24 am 
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There are strong indications that CSC was at two speeds, that riders were clean and others not. Hamilton was not, arvesen and julich were.
At the time you could win clean on a day or a one week stage but not a gt.

There are other riders than julich and cunego who once charged but stopped.

Interesting that there are quite a lot of clean riders at opqs these days, isn't it?

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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:24 am 


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