HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:36 pm
Posts: 9
NGMN wrote:
This is only half of the equation right? Bars come in various reaches from about 70 to about 90. FWIW, I'm a smaller guy and run a 90mm stem on an average reach bar of about 80mm.


Yes, bar dimensions are the other part of the equation! Different combinations of stems and bars (not to mention number of spacers, angle of bars and location of shifters on bars) can be used to position your hands in the same place in space relative to the steerer tube. It seems kind of silly to talk about ideal stem length without at least taking bar dimensions into account. E.g., if you think 100mm is your ideal stem length with Ergonova bars (77mm reach), then 90mm would become your ideal with Ergosum bars (89mm reach), everything else being equal.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:16 am 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:33 am 
Offline
in the industry

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:02 pm
Posts: 509
@Prendrefeu: you left trail out of the equation. Afaik that will also influence the feel of the bike by influencing how strong the "centering tendency" will be, making the bike more or less nervous/agile/quick to respond.

Calfee has an interesting page on geometry: http://www.calfeedesign.com/tech-papers ... -handling/

In the end, I guess, all a gigantic "it depends" :)

_________________
----
power2max


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7412
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
So I guess we can agree that there is no one variable that determines the handling of the bike? :lol:

My point is that people keep pointing at the stem and then give off some (rather daft) line like "short stems make for poor handling" when, really, it's more than the stem at play.

_________________
Exp001 || TeamLACBC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:01 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:08 am
Posts: 7360
Location: Geeeelong!
Well if a longer stem has their weight better distributed then surely there's a truth of sorts to what they are saying.

It's case specific, but still not untrue on what they're claiming.

_________________
http://www.nicksquillari.com.au Forum Jedi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:09 pm
Posts: 1227
Location: In the industry
Not to make the topic more controversial but I have been pondering over MTB geometry these days and it seems "Mounties" (sounds weird) are much less finicky than roadies as MTBs have head angle ranging from 71 to even 64 degrees. Even for hardtails it ranges from 66 to 71, but for roadies, half a degree is a pretty big deal.

BTW, my bikes tend to look best with 120 stems but handling feels best with 110mm.

_________________
Fast falcons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3mTPEuFcWk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
www.falcobike.com
Facebook: falcobikeglobal


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 3421
Location: Athens, Greece
Tinea Pedis wrote:
Well if a longer stem has their weight better distributed then surely there's a truth of sorts to what they are saying. It's case specific, but still not untrue on what they're claiming.


+1.
Nobody claims that the length of the stem alone defines a better ride. But usually (that is in most cases) an x rider on a y road frame (which is the right size for him) will have a better weight distribution (and better steering, feedback etc) on a 110-130 stem. That does not work as a rule of thumb for everyone but in most cases it does.

_________________
My Cipollini Bond
My 8618gr Colnago Master X-light
My 9745gr Pinarello Dyna


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:51 am
Posts: 1719
elviento wrote:
Not to make the topic more controversial but I have been pondering over MTB geometry these days and it seems "Mounties" (sounds weird) are much less finicky than roadies as MTBs have head angle ranging from 71 to even 64 degrees. Even for hardtails it ranges from 66 to 71, but for roadies, half a degree is a pretty big deal.

BTW, my bikes tend to look best with 120 stems but handling feels best with 110mm.


Its not just the angle, its also the fork offset and the weight of the wheels.

That's just the front end alone. The BB drop, the rear stay length, seat-tube angle ( which affects the positioning of the rider's center of gravity) all have a role to play.

As for the part about half a degree making a huge difference in road bikes, try fitting up with size 700x32c tyres that weigh closer to 400g grams each. You'll find that the handling sensitivity becomes much more muted compared to a 23c tyre.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4479
Location: Canada
Well, notwithstanding that 'size doesn't matter', it is true that a longer stem does have the effect of slowing-down steering on a bike. I guess, for me, that is one of the benefits of the requirement of 140mm stems caused by monocoque frames...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:34 pm
Posts: 90
I use 110mm stem, it works well for me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:33 pm
Posts: 28
130mm -17


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 1
115, though not sure who still makes them. Deda used to and you could find them from European distributors.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 11:16 pm
Posts: 125
For me it's more about weight distribution and how much the extra or less stretch allows me to push the front wheel on descents.

Run a -17 120 on my Canyon CF '12(60) and same on an Allez '10 (58) - the Allez feels a lot better even though the overall geo is similar. Just about to try and change the bars from Allez over to Canyon to see if it makes it better.

_________________
London2Paris24 2014 Fundraising for Scope UK
Facebook Page for more information and updates!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:55 pm
Posts: 1838
Location: Western Australia
100-120mm user here.

I've got a 105mm on my road bike and 120mm on a build that's upcoming.

I agree with TP and prendref, but I'm going to align with Nick here. It's more about weight distribution than handling. Although that affects how the bike feels, I don't think that's a direct parallel with handling as such, but it's related. I agree with prendref in that changing stems has a minor effect on actual bike handling.

I'm running a very short (50 or 60mm) stem on my TT bike, which, when sitting up, puts my weight too far back and makes the bike feel a bit vague at the front. When I'm in position, however, it feels spot on. Similar to road bikes, you don't corner in the same positions as you spin along in. The bike's handling will be affected by the wheelbase and fork geometry, and your body will shift around to find a good cornering position.

_________________
Cyclist turned music producer

Visiting South West Australia? Visit Crank n' Cycles!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:07 am
Posts: 91
it is about a balance.

for me at 185cm i am in between sizes on a lot of stock sized frames.

with longer legs for my height, i require a seat height of 79cm. the TT of a "56" is about right for me, but the HT is often a bit short, and the wheel base with that seat height makes for a high CG and a little Twitchy. i ride a 56cm TT, 120mm stem and 90mm reach bars, 170mm HT and a 20mm high stack headset top cap.

on a 58 i really only need a 110mm stem to obtain correct reach, which unfortunately on a lot of 58s is too short with a lot of them having quite steep HTA (73.5-74).

a longer stem slows the steering response for a given amount of input. seated and riding in a bunch this is definitely an advantage. the other side to it though is if youre running a longer stem, youre often on a smaller frame, with a shorter wheelbase. you need to balance all of these factors depending on you fit and riding style.

sprinting is another issue. when you stand you inevitably move forward, and overly long stem (coupled to a shorter wheel base) makes the bike unstable when sprinting.

i would actually prefer to go a little shorter stem, with a slightly longer TT and a nice mellow HTA for a little bit more stability.. 57 tt, 110 stem, 72/72.5* HTA 45mm rake would be the perfect compromise.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 am
Posts: 303
With 585mm TT - 110mm Stem

With 575mm TT - 120mm stem

Saddle to bar drop 14cm.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:12 am 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AGW, chalkie, ictus, jvanv8, Zw0ng and 42 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Your favorite chain tool

in Road

TheDoc

13

923

Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:32 pm

sugarkane View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Interbike Awards, Nominate your favorite shops....

in Road

madcow

0

206

Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:51 pm

madcow View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. titanium stem vs carbon stem?

[ Go to page: 1, 2 ]

in Road

Lemule

21

2317

Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:58 pm

Lemule View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Chain length

in Road

sfo423

4

361

Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:55 pm

Butcher View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Look e-post length

in Road

boidos

0

160

Mon May 12, 2014 11:31 pm

boidos View the latest post


It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:21 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB