Ambrisio Nemesis vs Clinchers for racing/fast training

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
campbellrae
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:20 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

by campbellrae

Hi all,

Had a look back and used the search function but can't find many answers with my criteria. But please direct me if I have just been blind...

I am looking for some new race/sunday best wheels for next year. Basically stiffness is the number one priority, then an even mix of weight and durability. Not bothered about aero if it comes at the expense of the others! I have had my heart set on a set of Ambrosio Nemesis rims laced to Chris King R45's or Campag Record hubs for a long time but I can't help but think that my money could be better spent elsewhere.

The roads here are really crap and I am a big guy so strength is important. I weight about 95kg's and have a habit of breaking wheels :| Ideally the wheels would weigh about 1500g and cost around £500 up to maybe £700 if they are a good upgrade. As it is I have a set of Ambrosio clinchers laced onto Hope Pro 3 hubs for training and winter use so the new wheels wont be used in really crappy conditions.

Other than the above I have been looking at some decent clinchers like Campag Zonda's, HED Ardennes etc.

I would be interested to hear your views/experiences with the wheel sets above or similar in terms of how good they are for racing and fast rides.

Thanks,

Campbell.

by Weenie


Montana
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:29 am

by Montana

You can't go wrong with a set of Nemesis built on Kings or Records - find a good builder and glue on a set of Veloflex - you will be happy :thumbup:

sawyer
Posts: 4473
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

I weight 20kg less but for me Zondas have been tought and smooth riding with their steel spokes (look like the same spokes as Boras to me - I have both).

They ride well on rough roads and don't flinch.
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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

Spuds
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:50 pm
Location: Melbourne, Aus.

by Spuds

If I were in your position I would go the Nemesis and with some strong hubs suitable to your budget and glue on the biggest, highest quality rubber you can fit in your frame.

Personally, I ride Ultegra hubs (cheap and bombproof) laced to Mavic GL330 rims (36 hole) with competition spokes which I built myself. I ride 25mm tyres usually around 80psi. Stiff, bombproof, fast and heavy :lol: 10000km and I have tweaked them twice. If I was building a "race" wheelset I'd probably go the F20 rim, but I'm in a different weight class to you (66kg) :P

sawyer
Posts: 4473
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

Spuds wrote:If I were in your position I would go the Nemesis and with some strong hubs suitable to your budget and glue on the biggest, highest quality rubber you can fit in your frame.

Personally, I ride Ultegra hubs (cheap and bombproof) laced to Mavic GL330 rims (36 hole) with competition spokes which I built myself. I ride 25mm tyres usually around 80psi. Stiff, bombproof, fast and heavy :lol: 10000km and I have tweaked them twice. If I was building a "race" wheelset I'd probably go the F20 rim, but I'm in a different weight class to you (66kg) :P


I get the great ride quality point, but do you guys who ride this sort of set-up not want for something faster and more sprightly?

Two tweaks over 10,000km at 66kg sounds like a lot of tweaks tbh - assuming you've never crashed. Maybe your roads are rubbish.

I've only ever had to tweak factory built wheels after crashes, in probably not far off 100,000km of riding.
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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

Geoff
Posts: 5093
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

Nemesis rims are designed to build-up wheels for unusually bad conditions, i.e., cobbled roads. For a really big, strong guy, they would also serve very well. They are not light, but will build into the most durable wheel in your inventory.

I have 4 or 5 sets in my collection, but only one built onto Record hubs. The Campagnolo set are laced on 32's with Sapim CX-Rays. I have never even had to so much as true those wheels. As to being 'fast', they are shod with fat Vittoria Paves, so they have a nice, cushy ride. They feel fast, but that is not really the point.

If you are going to build them up for the cobbles, you should really think of a set of FMB or Dugast seta 27's to go with them. If you are building them up for more 'conventional' roads, you can easily use a more typical tire.

sawyer
Posts: 4473
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

4 or 5 sets! :o

What's the full extent of your wheelery Geoff?
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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

campbellrae
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:20 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

by campbellrae

I was about to ask the same question! :lol:

If record hubs would not be best what would people recommend instead? I will have serious problems justifying the price of the King R45s to my other half so I would be keen to hear alternatives as well. I have been told that DT Swiss hubs are quite narrow so don't build well onto very shallow rims, does anyone have experience to that effect? I had 240s on a previous wheelset and they impressed me with their reliability so they are on my short list along with a few others!

Thanks again,

Campbell.

User avatar
JKolmo
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:00 pm

by JKolmo

So vast he can't keep count... ;-)

I have two sets myself (confirmed number) and can attest to their greatness!

LionelB
Posts: 1441
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Location: Aix en Provence

by LionelB

two sets here... Everyone needs at least one...

ligther one: record hubs - cxray - alum nipples
Paris Roubaix one: Royce hubs, ACi spokes, brass nipples

Geoff
Posts: 5093
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

Oh, lots and lots. I've been collecting pro race bikes for awhile now. They add up.

Lots of pro teams trust Nemesis rims to get them to the finish in some of the toughest races on the calendar and they often re-use sets over and over again, year after year, a testament to their toughness.

solarider
Posts: 492
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm

by solarider

I ride Nemesis rims and I am your weight. Beautiful wheels, but let's dispell a few myths because as much as they are the nicest wheels in my collection (and I also have Lightweights, Hyperons, Neutrons and Zipp 303s), their reputation is somewhat wrong.

They aren't inherently stiff. Something deeper will always be stiffer if that's what you want. They are however extremely comfortable, which leads me onto the next point as to why the pros use them for Paris Roubaix. It's about comfort, not strength. They are not inherently bomb proof, and are actually a very old design (pinned, shallow non-machined brake track, narrow, smooth tub bed). Modern wider, deeper rims will be stronger. But well built, they will be a perfect compromise of strength and comfort. Pros use them year after year because they only have to last one race every year, and they are supple enough (note, quite different to stiffness) to keep coming back for more.

I don't have a bad word to say about a good set of handbuilt wheels with a Nemesis rim, but they aren't the perfect wheel for every situation, and given your aspirations, they also probably aren't the perfect wheel for you. Always worth having one in the stable though.

Spuds
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:50 pm
Location: Melbourne, Aus.

by Spuds

sawyer wrote:
I get the great ride quality point, but do you guys who ride this sort of set-up not want for something faster and more sprightly?

Two tweaks over 10,000km at 66kg sounds like a lot of tweaks tbh - assuming you've never crashed. Maybe your roads are rubbish.

I've only ever had to tweak factory built wheels after crashes, in probably not far off 100,000km of riding.


Not really, these rims are about 350g each and when coupled with a high quality tyre probably have a rotating mass under most lightweight clinchers. Sure, a set of lightweights would be nice but these were cheap and strong too.

Two tweaks, probably not totally necessary but I did build them myself and they were some of the first wheels I built so I think keeping an eye on them is prudent. I also don't baby them, gutters, cobbles, dirt roads, etc. They tend to inspire confidence that a lot of low spoke count factory wheels do not. They work for me anyway, and I think most riders would benefit from such a setup.

sawyer
Posts: 4473
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

Spuds wrote:
sawyer wrote:
I get the great ride quality point, but do you guys who ride this sort of set-up not want for something faster and more sprightly?

Two tweaks over 10,000km at 66kg sounds like a lot of tweaks tbh - assuming you've never crashed. Maybe your roads are rubbish.

I've only ever had to tweak factory built wheels after crashes, in probably not far off 100,000km of riding.


Not really, these rims are about 350g each and when coupled with a high quality tyre probably have a rotating mass under most lightweight clinchers. Sure, a set of lightweights would be nice but these were cheap and strong too.

Two tweaks, probably not totally necessary but I did build them myself and they were some of the first wheels I built so I think keeping an eye on them is prudent. I also don't baby them, gutters, cobbles, dirt roads, etc. They tend to inspire confidence that a lot of low spoke count factory wheels do not. They work for me anyway, and I think most riders would benefit from such a setup.


Fair enough. Isn't the Nemesis more like 430g per rim?
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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

LionelB
Posts: 1441
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Location: Aix en Provence

by LionelB

They are actually more like 450g.

by Weenie


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