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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:40 pm 
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em3 wrote:
Shimming should only be required if your BB width is less then the 67.2 spec....did you measure your BB shell. You should not use shims in place of the wavy washer...the wavy washer is always necessary to provide the constant preload on the bearings and take up any slack/play. Also, not clear from your last post whether the shim you already installed is 0.5 mm? If yes, that seems much too thick...if you frame requires more then 0.2 or 0.3mm of shims then I would definitely call Cervelo and let them know the BB shell width on your frame is too much out of spec. Sounds like you are in a hurry to ride your new frame (don't blame you, I would be too) but do be sure you let the compound fully set or at least 24 hours before riding. Good luck, EM3


EM3, thanx for posting.
The FSA shim is 0,8mm thick! It is plastic, so maybe it gets flat when it is compressed by cranks. But even if wave washer and FSA shim is aplied there must be some play.....because the right cup came out of the frame (0,5mm was just a qeuss).
If it was a tight fit, the cranks would not let cup go out.

Well, I know You have R5....so, You could know that Cervelo BB is not 68mm wide but 79mm :wink: Remember, Cervelo engineered another SUPER TROOPER USELESS BB SYSTEM! :D

Whatever, think about it with me.....if Campagnolo says, that frame cranks can accept BB width from 67,2 up 68,8mm ...... it is 1,6mm tolerance! It is a huge number!
Wave washer is 0,7mm. So, if I aplied FSA 0,8 + 0,7 = 1,5mm. Still 0,1mm left to the Campa tolerance. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Permon wrote:
The FSA shim is 0,8mm thick! It is plastic, so maybe it gets flat when it is compressed by cranks. But even if wave washer and FSA shim is aplied there must be some play.....because the right cup came out of the frame (0,5mm was just a qeuss).
If it was a tight fit, the cranks would not let cup go out.


Don't use the plastic washer...this may explain why cups came loose even after using Loctite. In other words, plastic washer was compressed when fitting cups with Loctite (assuming you used a press) and then eventually de-compressed to original shape and pushed cup out.

Permon wrote:
Well, I know You have R5....so, You could know that Cervelo BB is not 68mm wide but 79mm :wink: Remember, Cervelo engineered another SUPER TROOPER USELESS BB SYSTEM! :D


Duh...my bad, you are correct, its 79mm...so, anything less then 78.2 is likely unacceptable if using parallel guidelines compared to 67.2mm guidelines for 68mm shell specs.

EM3

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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:51 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:16 pm 
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Location: Aix en Provence
if you look at the campy spec for the PF30 cups it is 68mm +- 0.2mm. Wich is quite different than the BSA campy cups spec of 68 +- .8mm.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:42 pm 
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em3 wrote:
Don't use the plastic washer...this may explain why cups came loose even after using Loctite. In other words, plastic washer was compressed when fitting cups with Loctite (assuming you used a press) and then eventually de-compressed to original shape and pushed cup out.


No, it is not that case, the plastic shim washer was aplied IN the left cup under wave washer NOT between frame and cup. So, it could not push cups out.

I am going to leave Loctite to dry up for at least 2 days, I hope it will be OK finally.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Location: Toronto
Permon, there is a very common misconception with respect to Campy Ultratorque and Powertorque systems - and that is that the wave washer is somehow related to "play". It is not. In these systems the right hand bearing should be held fairly firmly in place by the proper installation of the retaining clip, which should be done before the NDS crank is installed. So, with only the DS crank properly installed there should be no play.

The crank assembly is not there to hold the cups in either. That's another issue which I agree obviously has problems.

The wave washer is simply to provide a little preload to the the NDS bearing. The additional shim is liable to do more harm than good if it ends up overloading the bearings.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:36 am 
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Im just amazed that anyone thought pressfit BB's were a good idea to start with. Its been done so many times in the past and they have never worked.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:33 pm 
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How is this holding up? I want to be clear, you are running an EVO(68x46 all carbon shell) with the truvativ BSA adapter and standard campy UT threaded cups?

On my bench it is a straight forward assembly with no issues but I am hearing no so much for some folks. Did you have to make any modifications to the assembly?

Ozvelonut wrote:
Like I said earlier, on my EVO, the SRAM PF30 adapter is working well and despite my initial reservations (I'm a professional aircraft engineer) about my EVO frame having no metal insert for the BB, it seems to work well.

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Last edited by nicrump on Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:59 pm 
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nicrump wrote:
How is this holding up? I want to be clear, you are running an EVO(68x46 all carbon shell) with the truvativ BSA adapter and standard campy UT threaded cups?

On my bench it is a straight forward assembly with no issues but I am hearing no so much for some folks. Did you have to make any modifications to the assembly?

Ozvelonut wrote:
bikerjulio wrote:
Like I said earlier, on my EVO, the SRAM PF30 adapter is working well and despite my initial reservations (I'm a professional aircraft engineer) about my EVO frame having no metal insert for the BB, it seems to work well.


some kind of thread error here.

that's not my quote. I have Cannondale BB30 with Campy cups experience but no personal experience with PF30.

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There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:18 pm 
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post fixed

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:08 pm 
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So, I aplied Loctite 609 + primer 7649. Left it to dry up for 48 hours.

Today I took the R3 for a 2hour ride...no hammering, no racing, just a ride.....and.....so far, so good :beerchug:
I hope it will work even under hard load :smartass:

So, YES, I can confirm that 609 + primer looks to be working.

Thank You for support guys.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:40 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Hi Nicrump,
Sorry for misguiding you. The SRAM adapter I am talking about is the PF30 BB that comes with the EVO frame. I am running a set of FSA BB30 cranks until I can figure how to use my Campy UT cranks. (FWIW, the standard FSA 10 speed rings are working just fine with my 11 speed chain...)
The SRAM PF30 to BSA adapter looks promising if you can use the threaded Campag UT cups screwed in.
Has anyone tried that?

nicrump wrote:
How is this holding up? I want to be clear, you are running an EVO(68x46 all carbon shell) with the truvativ BSA adapter and standard campy UT threaded cups?

On my bench it is a straight forward assembly with no issues but I am hearing no so much for some folks. Did you have to make any modifications to the assembly?

Ozvelonut wrote:
Like I said earlier, on my EVO, the SRAM PF30 adapter is working well and despite my initial reservations (I'm a professional aircraft engineer) about my EVO frame having no metal insert for the BB, it seems to work well.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:24 am 
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Location: Aix en Provence
I did try that and: the ID was slightly smaller than the campy crank spindle so they were dragging a bit. When I tried to tighten the crank it was binding.

Ozvelonut wrote:
Hi Nicrump,
Sorry for misguiding you. The SRAM adapter I am talking about is the PF30 BB that comes with the EVO frame. I am running a set of FSA BB30 cranks until I can figure how to use my Campy UT cranks. (FWIW, the standard FSA 10 speed rings are working just fine with my 11 speed chain...)
The SRAM PF30 to BSA adapter looks promising if you can use the threaded Campag UT cups screwed in.
Has anyone tried that?

nicrump wrote:
How is this holding up? I want to be clear, you are running an EVO(68x46 all carbon shell) with the truvativ BSA adapter and standard campy UT threaded cups?

On my bench it is a straight forward assembly with no issues but I am hearing no so much for some folks. Did you have to make any modifications to the assembly?

Ozvelonut wrote:
Like I said earlier, on my EVO, the SRAM PF30 adapter is working well and despite my initial reservations (I'm a professional aircraft engineer) about my EVO frame having no metal insert for the BB, it seems to work well.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:05 pm 
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Posts: 493
Permon wrote:
So, I aplied Loctite 609 + primer 7649. Left it to dry up for 48 hours.

Today I took the R3 for a 2hour ride...no hammering, no racing, just a ride.....and.....so far, so good :beerchug:
I hope it will work even under hard load :smartass:

So, YES, I can confirm that 609 + primer looks to be working.

Thank You for support guys.


Hi guys,
after 5 rides the right cup is AGAIN on its way out of the frame! :cry: Actually, I am not surprised. I really never belived that those 4mm of contact area between frame and cups could hold it together when I put some serious effort. I am 88kg and 186cm.

So, what are my options now?

1) warranty? (that is something I would like to avoid - do not want to strip frame, wait for it and finally get the ugly 2013 R3 paintjob)

2) wait for Campagnolo re-design of the cups? Will be there any?

3) buy a new crankset? I really do not want to send my beloved Campa Record cranks away

4) make some "home fix"? As I wrote earlier in this thread, I could make a threded aluminium tube and make threads on the cups, then connect it into one solid piece

I think that the option No 4 is the only one I can accept at the moment?

Any other tips?

Thank You for help.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:25 pm 
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I believe Parlee is just coming out with their own PF30-Campy UT adapters.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Location: NYC
Permon, you have done EVERYTHING correct...I think its time to call Cervelo and have them send you a new frame. Call tech guys directly in Toronto and let them now what you have experienced. Yours is an unusual occurrence but I have heard it happen with a few others. It is highly possible that riding with a loose cup may have grinded away just that little bit of carbon that increased the inner diameter of your BB shell, but it sounds like it was never correct to begin with. Regardless, you are due a new frame. Good luck,
EM3

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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:53 pm 


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