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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:28 am 
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Posts: 167
Looking for some advice. I am building a whelset using velocity escape tubular rims. I have an extra 32 hole rim and am thinking of using it as a front 16 hole wheel for pretty much smooth roads, meaning no dirt, no cross, no pave. For a 160 pound rider.

Any idea if this is workable? I'm still pretty old school and think of 24 holes as pretty dicey but I do have a cheap set performance brand clinchers that have held up to quite a bit of abuse with 16F20R, of course those rims likely weigh quite a bit more.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:14 am 
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@ oysters The A23 OC will be a nice rim to use but will simply allow lower drive side tensions to be used for Campay 11 speed compatible hubs and new shimano 11 speed hubs. That will help the rim but not stiffness so much.

The rim selection does not increase or decrease the strength of the spokes. Spoke strength is determined by the spoke itself. A spoke durability depends on many factors such as guage, diameter at elbow, how even the tension is, count count... the rim is not a big factor here unless you choice a flexy rim and too a low spoke count for your weight.

A 20g rim wieght difference does not make too much difference to the moment of interia of the wheel. The tyre choice has a bigger effect on that.

I would not consider closer spoke length difference an advantage when using an A23 OC and advantage or disadvantage.
the shorter spokes in the archtype wheel set will result in a slightly stiffer wheel anyway.

So the Archetype rim will be still be a stiffer rim and build a stiffer wheelset compared to an A23/A23 OC on the same hubs with the same gaugue spokes, same spoke count and lacing pattern. But if you are using a 11 speed hub the A23 OC could be a better choice.

With the Alchemy hubs the better tension balance given by the OC rim is not really needed or the Archetype rim will be fine with a 50% tension balance.

Goi with the archetype it has the same width as the A23 doesn't it.

Styurll A 16 spoke front wheel really need a deeper V rim for lateral and radial stiffness. You may find even with your low weight a bit too much front wheel flex and short spoke life. I personally would not built a 16 spoke wheel. I think 20 spokes is low enough. Lower needs a heavy rim V rim.

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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:14 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:15 pm
Posts: 80
Cheers for the advice guys, re: lesser spoke count on Archetype rims.

Decided in the end to go 28 hole front and rear (3x all round)

Mainly due to the fact that the grey anodized rims are only available to me in 28 hole drillings. Was going to go 2x on front and rear NDS but decided to keep things classic afterall as the wheels will be on a modern classic lugged steel bike.

Will post pictures once wheels are built (ASAP) and frame arrives (Jan 2013)

Thanks again,


Si :-)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:00 pm 
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I have to say I like that colour you have choosen. Very classy rims.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:08 pm 
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bm0p700f wrote:
I have to say I like that colour you have choosen. Very classy rims.


I really like the all grey of my Ambrosio Nemesis rims and wanted a similar looking wheelset, plus Royce Hubs with the Royce QR Skewers !!!

Building with silver CX-Ray spoke should fit my new modern classic bike they are planned for but will also not look out of place on my Enigma.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Hey guys :D I'm new here and have been contemplating building a new wheel set. Right now I'm using a pair of rs10s that came with my CAAD 9 and was planning on attempting to build a lighter wheelset. I'm kind of been fluctuating between 175 and 180 pounds lately and I'm curious if any of my options would work for me. Since this would be my first build I'm kind of on a budget and if the build goes well then I'd be willing to start building more expensive quality wheels. So far I've been thinking of:

1) Kinlin 270 Rims (24h/28h or maybe 20h/28h), Circus Monkey or Dati Hubs, with either laser or cx ray spokes
2) Kinlin xr19w Rims(still thinking of spoke counts for this one since its the lightest wheel), Circus Monkey or Dati Hubs, with either laser or cx ray spokes
3) Velocity Aerohead and Aerohead Oc Rims(24h/28h), Circus Monkey or Dati Hubs, with laser or cx ray spokes
4)Stans A340 Rims, Circus Monkey or Dati Hubs, with laser or cs ray spokes

I think these combinations would range close to the 1350-1400g range and was hoping they would work out for somebody my weight.

Any suggestions on hole count or maybe other combinations that would work are greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:35 pm 
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There is one component on your list I would advise you to stay away from:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79202&start=30#p921981"

Just for clarification: Dati hubs :!:

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Last edited by 1415chris on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Location: McCall, ID
@visionz-

I am somewhat of a skeptic of the XR19w. The fact that is has a lower max tension rating than the rest of the Kinlin lineup makes me question the rigidity and durability of the build, particularly on the rear non drive side. I would think that spokes would be prone to going slack under load (causing early breakage) simply because of the low tension on both the DS and NDS.
I think that the most sensible option would be the XR270 or the new A23 OC. Both of those (the 270 in particular) would be much more rigid than the XR19w. The 340 could be a good option as well, but when it comes down to it, I would pick the A23 over the 340 almost every time simply because I think it is a more well made hoop.

Which rim is going to be ideal for you depends completely on the terrain that you ride. If your climbing all day long, the 340 would probably be the best option. If you ride pancake flat every day, the 270 would be your best bet. For a do it all hoop, its going to be hard to beat that A23.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:25 pm 
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Well that cuts it down for me quite well then. Sounds like the 270 or the a23 rim with dati hubs instead of the circus monkey. What would be the best hole set up for somebody weight? The wheel I've been using Were doing good for quite some time and were 20f/24r but then again it is a heavier wheel. Btw the roads I usually rode are moderate rolling hills. Im pretty weak at climbing wheels but i'd like a set that could help me improve at climbing


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:50 pm 
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visionz001 wrote:
Well that cuts it down for me quite well then. Sounds like the 270 or the a23 rim with dati hubs instead of the circus monkey. What would be the best hole set up for somebody weight? The wheel I've been using Were doing good for quite some time and were 20f/24r but then again it is a heavier wheel. Btw the roads I usually rode are moderate rolling hills. Im pretty weak at climbing wheels but i'd like a set that could help me improve at climbing


Well I haven't worked with the hubs your choosing, so I can't speak for those. But if this were one of my builds, I would recommend a 24/28 for your weight. You could even get away with a 20/28 seeing as front wheels are usually much more rigid than rears.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:12 pm 
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that sounds perfect to me :D thanks a lot for the suggestions. I'd really like to be able to use better hubs but since its my first build I figured I probably shouldn't spend too much in the case that it doesn't go as planned. Although if the build goes well I can see myself building myself an extra set of wheels with much better parts.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I would also build with the A23's or the XR-270 rims. You will probably be fine ona 24F/28R with the A23's. I can say this as I have a RR415 wheelset 28F and 28R and the rear give no issues and I am 176lbs. The RR415 is another good rim but is eyeleted light weight and is not as stiff as the A23. The rear wheel even seems fine and stable while respecting the 1100N tension limit with a Miche hub (11 speed compatible). You can only have 28 or 32H drillings though.

The Kinlin XR-270 will be more than fine with 24F/28R spoking. You could try the XR-300 as well.

To give you an idea on weight a pair of wheels using XR-300 20F/24R with Novatec A291SB/F482SB hubs were 1484g in weight with CX-ray spokes. I doubt the XR-270 wheelset will below 1400g in weight unless the hubs are crazy light. The A23 wheelset will not be much lighter as the rims are a similar weight. The ones I have in at moment are about 440g.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:46 am 
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visionz001 wrote:
Well that cuts it down for me quite well then. Sounds like the 270 or the a23 rim with dati hubs instead of the circus monkey.

The post that was referenced speaks of dati hubs being of poor quality; so why would you pick the dati hubs over the circus monkey ones based on that topic?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:34 am 
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Oh? Maybe I misread I thought it was referring to circus monkey.


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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:34 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:28 am 
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Posts: 6
has anybody worked with the xr-270? I'm seeing two ERD's from numerous places. I'm seeing 587mm and 585mm anybody know which one to go with? and as for the hubs these are the dimensions I'm seeing. Image

If I'm putting in the calculations correct the spoke length should be 278.2(587 ERD) or 277.2 (585 ERD) for radial lacing the front or 286.5(587 ERD) or 285.5(585 ERD) for 2x lacing.

Would it be better to round up for spoke lengths or round down?


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