Zen Cyclery wrote:
We are absolutely biased against Zipp. We are a dealer of Enve, so obviously that will be our preference. But the wind tunnel data doesn't lie. It is hard to fudge numbers like that.
Well, I'm told admitting that you have a problem is the first step.
I won't presume to speak for Jason but having talked to him a few times he's a stand-up guy that I believe would be mortified with your display of such a consistent bias that you've been called on it many times by many posters.
So, instead of "Enve wheels are stiffer," try "I know there's 2 different magazine tests that show Zipp wheels to be stiffer and that Adrien's article has been pointed out to me many times, but I don't care."
Instead of "Zipp hubs are crap" try "I've seen a couple pictures on the internet of issues out of tens of thousands of hubs in use, and please don't look around for pictures of Enve rim failures." Seriously, I think the only thread on here you haven't managed to work in a comment about our hubs is the Armstrong doping thing, but you probably hold us responsible for that too.
The tunnel doesn't lie, but charts certainly can. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=97169&p=825223&hilit=enve+303+firecrest+chart#p825265
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It looks like they may have actually fixed that data but I can't be bothered to work the numbers to see if they're still based on the pre-Firecrest data though. There's plenty of independent data showing our wheels to be fastest; I missed the link you provided in response to tranzformer's question.
On the molded spoke holes, as was pointed out, bending fibers around relatively tight radii presents its own set of manufacturing and engineering compromises. As I've said before, engineering is compromise and each of our respective companies have made the compromises with which they're most comfortable.
All that said, I will never understand people basing purchasing decisions of this financial magnitude on the input of various internet posters. If at all possible, ride the wheels, examine independent data, and make a decision from there.
My mistake. I do see how it can be frustrating hearing a generalization like that about Zipp hubs. I am really not trying to upset anyone here, but in hindsight, I can see how my statements were a bit over the top.
In my experience though, I haven't been impressed with the performance of the Zipp hubs. Both in my LBS days, and currently, I have heard and seen numerous issues with them. However, I will admit that I know plenty of people who swear by their products, and won't even consider riding anything else.
I do agree with you though Waldo. Our posts could be worded much better, and in the future, I will strive to make that happen. I know if someone were making statements like we have about our products, I would be less than pleased too.
Again, I am sorry to have upset you. I did make a statement that overgeneralized a bit, and that was my mistake.
I hope you can accept our apology.