Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Galleries NEW FAQ Contact About Impressum
It is currently Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:58 pm
Recently the board software has been updated and there are some known bugs/failures:
- Avatars are currently not being displayed ✔ FIXED
- Tapatalk connection is currently broken ✔ FIXED
- Avatars cannot be uploaded ✔ FIXED

Please note that we will soon do some changes in WW board template design in case to get a fully mobile/desktop responsiveness board!
If you find more errors please post it here: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=139062


All times are UTC+01:00





Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 5 610 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:16 pm
Posts: 642
they could just thread the BB's, oh wait they used to do that but decided to save themselfs a bit of money


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:39 am 
Offline
Shop Owner

Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 1980
Location: NoVA/DC
em3 wrote:
(interestingly, my cups only came with the o-rings, but no seals...your pics appear to display a lip seal against the frame?)

the cups pictured above are "eps compatible", i believe there is a plastic tube that spans across the new lips facing inboard. this is merely to keep the wires off the bb axle. these cups supercede the old cups.


Top
   
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:39 am 


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
thisisatest wrote:
em3 wrote:
(interestingly, my cups only came with the o-rings, but no seals...your pics appear to display a lip seal against the frame?)

the cups pictured above are "eps compatible", i believe there is a plastic tube that spans across the new lips facing inboard. this is merely to keep the wires off the bb axle. these cups supercede the old cups.


Yes, those raethe places I plan to make threads and connect it with aluminium threaded tube.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
em3 wrote:
Permon wrote:
Yes, it is definatelly a CAMPY fail.
The reason why the driveside cup is coming out of the frame is the design of Ultra Torque system, which uses the wave washer, it gives some side play in the system. ...
This could actually solve the problem:
http://roguemechanic.typepad.com/roguem ... orque.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Permon, the wave washer and the RogueMechanic "fix" has nothing to do with it...this is simply a BBRIght Campy Press Fit issue. It sounds like your LBS is engaging in due diligence to try and solve the issues but I noticed two errors they made.

First, take off rubber o-rings and lip-seals from the cups before installing as they may get snagged in the compound (in between frame and cup) when inserting cups and yield an uneven surface (interestingly, my cups only came with the o-rings, but no seals...your pics appear to display a lip seal against the frame?). Second, Loctite 638 is too thick for this application and as others have indicated, it may be simply oozing out from between the gap when you press in your cups, leaving you with limited compound to actually bond. Use 609 for best results. Begin by applying liberal amounts of primer and be sure to let dry for at least 30-60 minutes, then apply liberal amounts of 609 both on cups and frame. Use a bearing press to fit the cups and leave the press fitted for at least 24 hours (this is very important). Do not let your shop install using the actual cranks as a press....this may result in Loctite oozing into your bearings, leaving you with another problem. There are no shortcuts...the bearing press is required.

Given that your LBS has already tried this a couple of times and failed I suspect there will be lots of compound residue in your BB shell and on your cups...that will need to be cleaned thoroughly (use acetone) before trying to reinstall.

I have installed BBiright cups on many Cervelos and found that my initial use of 641 (what Cervelo was initially recommending when BBRIght was first introduced) was simply not sufficient and the cups found their way loose after a few ride, however, others have had success with 641. I have not had any failures after using 609.

Good luck,
EM3



EM3 thank you for help. I have already bought 609 with activator. I wil try to do it the way you wrote.

Regarding the lip seals, I was told by LBS that it is upgrade from Campagnolo to prevent creacking sounds.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
So, I bought the Loctite 609 + activator.
I disassmbled the cranks and tried to remove the cups.....well, it seems to me, like it is rock solid and cups are not going out :shock: Uff.
I am going to take it to the LBS to disassemble it, but I am so scared that cups are bonded so strong now, that they will not get out.
I checked the technical documentation for Locite 638 (used by LBS) and found out that it is possible to disassamble bonded parts under one condition.....temperature of 250 °C.
Now I talked to a friend of mine who has a company selling carbon fibres. He said, that 250°C could be OK for carbon fiber, but it will probably get softer and should not be mechanically stressed. Not good, because there is need to take cups out of the frame mechanically.
Other way around is to use solvent to liquefy the acrylat glue. This could be quite safe (carbon fiber should resist it w/o any problem) BUT, the solvent would need to get deep in the bond.....which could be a problem as the fit (cup + frame) was quite tight.

Any advises guys?

I am so *f##k* up by all of this. I just wanted to have a new frame, now I have a BIG problem:(


Last edited by Permon on Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:09 pm 
Offline
Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Belgium
Hi,

The problem IMHO is not going to come from the heat resistance of carbon fibre but from the adhesive that was used to bond the shell to the frame.

On the bright side: it does no longer move so why not leave it be for the time being?

Ciao, ;)

_________________
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
fdegrove wrote:
Hi,

The problem IMHO is not going to come from the heat resistance of carbon fibre but from the adhesive that was used to bond the shell to the frame.

On the bright side: it does no longer move so why not leave it be for the time being?

Ciao, ;)


...because the cup is not parallel to the frame, so it will damage the bearings. :(


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 1388
Location: Aix en Provence
Permon wrote:
So, I bought the Loctite 609 + activator.
I disassmbled the cranks and tried to remove the cups.....well, it seems to me, like it is rock solid and cups are not going out :shock: Uff.
I am going to take it to the LBS to disassemble it, but I am so scared that cups are bonded so strong now, that they will not get out.
I checked the technical documentation for Locite 638 (used by LBS) and found out that it is possible to disassamble bonded parts under one condition.....temperature of 250 °C.
No I talked to a friend of mine who has a company selling carbon fibres. He said, that 250°C could be OK for carbon fiber, but it will probably get softer and should not be mechanically stressed. Not good, because there is need to take cups out of the frame mechanically.
Other way around is to use solvent for to liquefy the acrylat glue. This could be quite safe (carbon fiber should resist it w/o any problem) BUT, the solvent would need to get deep in the bond.....which could be a problem as the fit (cup + frame) was quite tight.

Any advises guys?

I am so *f##k* up by all of this. I just wanted to have a new frame, now I have a BIG problem:(


that's exactly what I was concerned about. I think heat maybe the solution to take it out but I would only have that done by a real pro and not the LBS.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:50 am
Posts: 315
Easy fix, heat it up, let it cool and pop it out.
The loctite's grip fails when heated, not just when hot.
250C is easily acheived with a heat gun on a low setting.
Obviously heat from the center.

Also, the loctite is there to tighthen tolerance, it does not have shear strength so once you move the cup any it's entire purpose is destroyed and it has not holding strength.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:57 pm
Posts: 827
Location: NYC
timzcat wrote:
Easy fix, heat it up, let it cool and pop it out.
The loctite's grip fails when heated, not just when hot.
250C is easily acheived with a heat gun on a low setting.
Obviously heat from the center.

Also, the loctite is there to tighthen tolerance, it does not have shear strength so once you move the cup any it's entire purpose is destroyed and it has not holding strength.


+1...a heat gun or good hair dryer will provide u sufficient heat to break the bond. However, make sure that proper tools are used to remove cups especially if they require a little bump getting to knock them out...you will want to make sure the removal tool doesn't scrape or scar the inner surface of BB shell. EM3

_________________
______________

My 2013 Cervelo R5


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:51 am 
Offline
Shop Owner

Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 1980
Location: NoVA/DC
heat should not be required to remove the cups.
you could mess up your paint, besides whatever happens to the frame.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
Hi guys!

My progress? I was trying to heat it up few times. No progress, cup still in the frame.
Looks like glue is bonded perfectlly.

I do not know if I mentioned.....my LBS put there a special plastic (FSA) shim washer to reduce the side play which Ultra Torque has. So, the cup traveled only a 0,5mm of the frame, because the cranks did not let them go more.

Here we go....So, I removed the FSA washer to let cranks travel more to the right. Put cranks on and went for a 2minute ride....... AND? The right cup went out!!!!!! So, the bond was broken.
Then a i disassembled the cranks and cup was taken out. Uff! I got it:)

So, 2 days ago when I wrote that the side play has a HUGE ROLE in pushing the cups out of the frame, I was right.

My next steps?
I am going to aply primer + 609 and buy this shim kit ( http://roguemechanic.bigcartel.com/prod ... e-shim-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )to reduce all the side play from UT cranks....I think this will be the final solution. :idea:


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 1388
Location: Aix en Provence
out of curiousity, in what shape is the BB carbon shell after all this ?


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
LionelB wrote:
out of curiousity, in what shape is the BB carbon shell after all this ?


I do not see any damage. Cup is still tight fit, can be put in BB only by press - good sign I quess.
But, by my opinion, the BB is bad engineered or manufactured. I will send pics later to show, where is the problem from my poit of view.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:57 pm
Posts: 827
Location: NYC
Shimming should only be required if your BB width is less then the 67.2 spec....did you measure your BB shell. You should not use shims in place of the wavy washer...the wavy washer is always necessary to provide the constant preload on the bearings and take up any slack/play. Also, not clear from your last post whether the shim you already installed is 0.5 mm? If yes, that seems much too thick...if you frame requires more then 0.2 or 0.3mm of shims then I would definitely call Cervelo and let them know the BB shell width on your frame is too much out of spec. Sounds like you are in a hurry to ride your new frame (don't blame you, I would be too) but do be sure you let the compound fully set or at least 24 hours before riding. Good luck, EM3

_________________
______________

My 2013 Cervelo R5


Top
   
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:11 pm 


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 5 610 Next

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Praxis pf30 weight? Is there pf30 that's light but not to expensive?

[ Go to page: 1 2 ]

in Road

Allen254

16

1348

Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:13 am

motorthings View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Best Ceramic PF30 BB????

in Road

gerardk1111

7

470

Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:14 pm

gerardk1111 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. PF30 install

[ Go to page: 1 2 ]

in Road

defride

15

1124

Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:20 pm

defride View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. PF30 Get the bearings out (intact)

in Road

alcatraz

1

225

Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:37 am

Marin View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. PF30 Bottom Bracket Choice

[ Go to page: 1 2 ]

in Road

nohands

24

1818

Thu May 12, 2016 2:48 am

AE86Micah View the latest post


All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], CLEAR, Google Adsense [Bot], sarion, Yahoo [Bot] and 30 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited