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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:42 am 
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Location: so. cal.
Behind what sports? The only other sports that cycling could be related would be long distance running and triathlons. Are you saying that distance runners and triathletes are using something more advanced than epo variants?
Remember cyclist are not in the business of short and powerful efforts, like soccer, basketball, gymnastics, rugby, etc.

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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:42 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:53 am 
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so cyclists never go anaerobic or sprint? in football, rugby, basketball, tennis play can last quite a while, there is a big aerobic element.
but sports more similar to cycling of the top of my head are rowing, nordic skiing and speed skating. surely these sports have similar doping.

if there are ways to dope that tests can't pick up on then athletes will dope. full stop.
as far as i know there still isn't a test for autologous transfusions, and i have read about undectable types of epo in articles like this
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11385 ... iants.aspx
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11395 ... lance.aspx

as far as fabian is concerned idk if he is or has doped but i find his and other athletes shock, disbelief and claims they had no idea what was going on insincere.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:35 pm 
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beardking wrote:
so cyclists never go anaerobic or sprint? in football, rugby, basketball, tennis play can last quite a while, there is a big aerobic element.
but sports more similar to cycling of the top of my head are rowing, nordic skiing and speed skating. surely these sports have similar doping.


yes other sports are highly aerobic, but taking EPO isn't going to give a footballer (soccer) , foot-ball coordination which is leaps and bounds more important that being able to "sprint" past your opponent. Also taking muscle building steroids isn't going to give foot-ball coordination. Matches aren't "frequent" as stage races or grand tours with matches happening maybe twice a week, then practicing the remaining days... which i can attest to being hard, but adequate "rest" in my opinion.

i am not saying that doping in football is not possible or happening currently though.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:02 pm 
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Strongman competitors use EPO so it wouldn't shock me if soccer/football players did.

To answer the questions on the last page- yes I think there is tons of stuff out there one could take and not test positive for. The shit they were using was extremely old.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
OJ wrote:
KWalker wrote:
Personally, I think he was clean until 1994. When he and Luc LeBlanc took off and just annihilated everyone else I think it was a bit obvious that he had a tad more fitness than his previous victories.

I don't know man...'89 and '90 Big Miq was up there, close but no cigar, and then 1991 he was at the top with large margin to 2nd. For Indurain, 1991 appears to be the watershed year.
Not saying that Indurain didn't dope, or perhaps accelerate it in 1991 (EPO?), but wasn't Indurain held back in 1989-90 having to support Delgado?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:39 pm 
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nathanong87 - not disagreeing skill is the most important thing but i doubt these guys would not want increased fitness, speed and every other possible advantage they could get.
if they took steroids or HGH would they be ble to recover faster and get more training in? I'm not doping expert but it seems plausible to me that if it would give a benefit at all and there was little chance of being caught that some of them would do it :noidea:

how often do they get tested?
and why do they get injured so often?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:08 pm 
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roca rule wrote:
Behind what sports? The only other sports that cycling could be related would be long distance running and triathlons. Are you saying that distance runners and triathletes are using something more advanced than epo variants?
Remember cyclist are not in the business of short and powerful efforts, like soccer, basketball, gymnastics, rugby, etc.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2


My comment was in response to Kwalker's post that was discussing PEDs in general and not just epo. Boxing, MMA, and bodybuilding are all breeding grounds for new techniques in doping (though drug testing isn't a practice in the latter).


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:07 pm 
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PED's won't make a footballers skill with the ball better, but it will sure as hell make his ball handling skills better after sprinting across the field first. Tired players make a lot more mistakes.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:09 pm 
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When someone like Dwayne Chambers (a 100 metre sprinter) takes EPO, then it doesn't need that much thought to realise that a soccer player would also take it. Midfield players in socccer often run up to 14/15 kilometres in a game. And no matter how much skill you have, you also need speed (either natural or enhanced). Yes, there's a gap between games, but they also train every day.

Arsenal's coach Arsene Wenger has stated in the past that the medical tests on some of the players he signed showed some dodgy numbers.

Tennis doesn't have a problem because they do hardly any testing; something that WADA have pointed out, i.e., their testing regime is pathetic.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:22 pm 
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What about puerto. I thought Fuentes had blood bags of top footballers and tennis star Nadal . The high profile of names is why it was dropped .Barca and Real madrid players .I think Beckham was playing for Madrid around this time. Zidane was . They still named the cyclists though :unbelievable: Basso and all . As usual the other sports seem to walk away untouched and cycling gets its ass kicked.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:43 pm 
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Location: France
KWalker, I have a French book tucked away somewhere, Pouvez-vous gagner le Tour ( Could you win the Tour )

http://www.ecoutedopage.fr/cas-dopage/p ... 9-555.html

It has analysis of the final climbs and stand-out performance in the Tour from 1990 - 2003 or thereabouts. Power outputs / VAMs are calculated based on TV coverage, timing data between known points and the ascent/distance between those points.

There are also some graphs that show the power output by the leaders of the Tour on the final climb of mountain stages. There is a marked increase from 1991 onwards. The only conclusion possible is doping. The authors ( who are sports scientists ) come to that conclusion. It is quite obvious Indurain doped.

If I have time I will try and scan the relevant pages.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:47 pm 
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One of the graphs, power normalized for rider weight of 80Kg, vertical axis, average power/W final climb of mountain stage.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:09 am 
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sorry if mentioned before

Spidertech not racing next season

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/ ... 013_261245


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:43 am 
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That graph cannot be correct, it shows that they were riding at only around 4.5watts/kg up final climbs in the tour de france. I know that drugs help alot but that seems like somewhat of an exaggeration. Any idea where the power figures came from?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:36 am 
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Meanwhile in Czech Republic...

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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:36 am 


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