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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:19 am
Posts: 9
Thanks

I have been doing some research, but most articles focus on the +/- of aero vs weight. In the case of Farsport 50M clinchers, I am getting a relatively aero wheel which is also light. This is something most articles overlook.

I also found most articles ignore the effect of stiffness gains when using deeper dish wheels.

In summation, it would appear that by using the Farsport 50M clinchers, I will be slightly quicker accelerating and uphills (very marginal), about the same on the flat and maybe a bit slower downhill compared to my Fast Forward 40/60s. I think the main difference will be in surgy group riding and sprints where I should be slowly saving energy with each lunge.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:15 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Roger9 wrote:
I think the main difference will be in surgy group riding and sprints where I should be slowly saving energy with each lunge.


Yes, but that energy saved will be very very small. Rim inertia is roughly twice the rim weight. So if you save 200g off the rims, you will be accellerating 400g less. But that's 400g out of the total combined rider + bike weight. It's about a 1/3 of a bottle of water. Can you feel that? I can't.

I think there's more of a difference in aero drag between different shapes of aero wheels. FarSports uses an older airfoil design which is probably not as aero as the most modern rims. Of course it's impossible to say without getting the parts in a wind tunnel.


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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:15 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:51 am 
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200g differences in the rim are a lot. Especially when you are in the middle of a riding pack with plenty of changes in pace during the course of a ride.

In fact, its discernible for as little as under a 100g. Try riding the Shimano C24 and the C35 clinchers. The differences in spinning up to speed are very, very obvious even though they use identical hubs.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:30 am 
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Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
eric wrote:
But that's 400g out of the total combined rider + bike weight. It's about a 1/3 of a bottle of water.
You must have really heavy water ... or bottle (if you're counting that) .. or really big bottle. A very large bottle is 750 ml, which has (just a smidge under) 750g of water at capacity (and maximum density at 4 deg C), so 1/3 of that would be 250g. If we throw in a generous allowance of 90g for the empty water bottle, that would still be a total of only 340g for the very large 750ml bottle, 1/3 full of water. Just the water by itself would only be (at most) 250g. 1/3 of a regular water bottle only has about 200g of water.

Your point may have some merit, but exaggeration does not enhance it.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:43 am 
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Ordered some zipp platinum pro pads to try out, should have them by mid next week.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:17 am 
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eric wrote:
Roger9 wrote:
I think the main difference will be in surgy group riding and sprints where I should be slowly saving energy with each lunge.


But that's 400g out of the total combined rider + bike weight. It's about a 1/3 of a bottle of water. Can you feel that? I can't.

.


While the logic above is sound and I agree that going up a hill your legs are pushing a fixed weight over a fixed distance. But isn't it too simplistic??

If the "average" rider + bike + kit weight was say 70 to 90 kg range, why do we spend so much money buying lighter bikes, trying to shed 1kg can easily cost $1,000 +.

I appreciate 400g may not sound much in the overall scheme of things, but over many years of riding I have appreciated the benefits of riding lighter bikes, they do almost always feel better than heavier steeds. Granted, lighter bikes usually have better components and frames, but I still feel a 400g saving to a bike, and in particular the wheels would be felt in a very psoitive wieght.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Roger9 wrote:
If the "average" rider + bike + kit weight was say 70 to 90 kg range, why do we spend so much money buying lighter bikes, trying to shed 1kg can easily cost $1,000 +.


Because it's easier to spend money than it is to get as lean as possible. Or because we've already lost as much weight as we can and we have money to spend to pursue marginal gains.

But my point wasn't that lighter rims aren't faster- they are. It's that losing weight off the rims is not as massively better than losing weight elsewhere as some people think.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
prendrefeu wrote:
I'll have a pair of UD 38 CC's coming in sometime next week. It will be interesting to compare.


The wheels came in yesterday in the middle of an exhaustive day of installing new carpeting in the house, so I didn't have much time to work with them.
Weighed w/ veloplugs (red) installed - 689g rear, 550g front - total 1239g.
These are with the "ED" Hubs, ceramic bearings. 20/24 spokes. All black, UD finish.

The weight is nice, I appreciate the accuracy to the original quoted weight from FarSports. On inspection the layup looks good, no issues of wavering braketracks or anything to be concerned about that I can see. Tire mounting (GP400s) wasn't any different than typical rims, a little bit harder compared to my default set which use Alpha 340 rims but no big deal. Wheels are true, stiff (laterally). A test ride will determine ride-quality stiffness.

I was honestly most impressed by the packaging. Very professional and even looked a bit better than the boxes some major brands come in (for example, Reynolds, Easton). I appreciate that the box was sealed to be re-usable (as in they didn't use heavy duty staples to close the box). and the handle is a nice touch. All said it's something I appreciate a lot from Chinese culture: a natural and intense desire to recycle, re-use and enable almost anything to be used more than once.

I'll be getting a short & gradual incline ride in sometime Thursday, steep but short climbing ride Friday, long climbing ride Saturday, Sunday will be easy (like a Sunday morning...). For now, they look good, that's all I can say. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Photos please sir....when you have a break from riding, of course!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:42 am 
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I'm toying with the idea of the 60mm tubulars as an all purpose race wheel set. I don't think I'll get blow around too much at 84kg. Everyone seems to be buying the 38mm clinchers though! Anyone tried the 60s?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
btompkins0112 wrote:
Photos please sir....when you have a break from riding, of course!


Snapped a few photos yesterday afternoon while taking a break. Apologies for the poor lighting.
I tried to cover the details as well as the overall look - so there are some shots of the hubs as well, and the braking surface. Today's ride has been moved to the afternoon and it may be a wet ride, so I'm posting the images now. I'm happy about the depth (for many reasons, I don't feel the need to go with deeper rims for the type of riding I do and the conditions I end up in plus rims that are too deep look rather cartoonish on smaller frames in my opinion). Ride report will come on Monday. The photos are post bike-cleaning (which I did before the carpet install) - which explains why everything looks so damn clean. I use a ultrasonic cleaner to clean my components. :twisted:

Front Wheel:
Image

Rear Wheel:
Image

Detail (front) :
Image

Brake Track (w/ Reynolds Blue, same as provided by FarSports) :
Image

Front Hub:
Image

Rear Hub:
Image

Another surface/deail shot (rear) :
Image

Overall (apologies for a couch partially blocking the rear wheel) :
Image

There you go! If there's anything I left off, please ask. Back to work, then riding. :twisted:

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Last edited by prendrefeu on Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:47 pm
Posts: 54
I decided to try little cheaper 50mm clincher rims from china. Model is SDRM50c and suplier centermold. weigth was supposed to be 460gr +/-10gr.
I got exelent service via email and just before shipping I was informed that one rim weigth was 477gr but other was 455gr! I had to decide if I could accept this.
Shipping took only 4 days and I was ready to weigth the wheels my self. Weigths was like informed and I couldn't help my self to build the wheels to old leftover
spokes that I happened to have (2mm silver). Rims are visually good finnished and brake track is solid. I managed to get these wheel just under 1500gr with these
heavy spokes. Hubs are Sokin and they weigth 210gr and 66gr. I believe I get them under 1400gr when I get the Cx aero 494 spokes. Weather looks pretty bad here
in Finland so I may not be able to try them in the road for a few months...untill next summer.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/31022871/kuituavot.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:25 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Pays De Galles
Great setup you have there prendrefeu. The brake track on the rims looks huge! Very easy to set up.

What components do you clean with an ultrasonic cleaner? Do you have to remove them from the bike?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
@prend

Do you plan on using these wheels for mountainous training?

If so, please let us know how they hold up while descending.

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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:41 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Location: Southern California
prendrefeu-

"The wheels came in yesterday in the middle of an exhaustive day of installing new carpeting in the house, so I didn't have much time to work with them.
Weighed w/ veloplugs (red) installed - 689g rear, 550g front - total 1239g.
These are with the "ED" Hubs, ceramic bearings. 20/24 spokes. All black, UD finish."

-Do you think the "ED" Hubs w/ceramic bearings is worth the extra $$$ ? I don't have much experience with ceramic bearings, and I've seen WW forum debates regarding whether or not they're any better than steal bearings. I just installed Red Ceramics along with a 2012 Red Crankset on my Felt, and they certainly spin nicely.


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