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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:08 am 
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Posts: 1096
The general issue with DT hubs is that the flange spacing isn't as effective for building a stable wheel as on a Chris King or Dura Ace or Alchemy or whatever. But that's a problem with any rim you build on those hubs. DT's aren't bad, just not quite as good as some others.

I second the question of why you'd use 190s with Nemesis rims. This is to build tough, durable wheels and going with 190s is a waste of money plus adding a little more fragility to the hub. If you want to spend money like that, get Chris King or Alchemy.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:34 am 
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Posts: 326
DT hubs build up to fine wheels for tens of thousands of riders.

They will be fine for you.
This is not to say that Alchemy or Chris King might be stiffer.

Using DT190s is really weird on Nemesis rims. 11.4 is 100% correct in his advice.


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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:34 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:06 am 
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Posts: 491
The hubs are a given. I already have them and paid 240 prices for them. Agree that full price 190's are a joke.

Would a Major Tom be a better bet?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:02 pm
Posts: 468
I think what everybody is getting at here, is that the only reason to use 190 hubs would be to build a light wheel.

While the Nemesis rims are excellent, they will never build into a light wheel.

Ditto for the Major Toms, which I rate lower on the quality scale than the Nemesis.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:51 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 1434
Location: Aix en Provence
If you already have the hubs why not. Nemesis are great riding rims. Depending on the use you plan for them you can also put fancier spokes like CXRay to build a pretty light set.

I have two pairs of nemesis that Derelk@wheelsmith built for me, the first one uses Royce hubs and ACI spokes and is the bombproof set. Used it in Paris Roubaix last year for example. The second set uses records hubs and CX Ray and came in at 1520g IIRC.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:12 pm
Posts: 216
Location: NL
NONAME wrote:
that is good choice, but Sapim Laser is not good idea, i think Sapim Race or Sapim D-light for cyclocross

Do you have an online source for Sapim D-light? Also interested to buy CX-sprint as a more robust alternative to CX-ray for DS application..


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:06 pm
Posts: 39
Ok, last post before I commit to building. Will it be stiff enough?

Me: 70kg, using wheels for racing, climbing. They need to be stiff!

Rim: Velocity escape 24f/28r
Hubs: BHS hubs
Spokes: CX-Ray
Nipples: Alloy

Should come to around 1300g, but will it be stiff enough for me when I'm standing on the pedals sprinting?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:28 am 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Depends how how power/torque you can generate. Those BHS hubs have fairly narrow spacing on the rear add to that your spoke count and the light weight spokes means some flex is possible. Whether it is enough to cause brake rubbing is another matter. I have hubs with similar spacing on a rear wheel (different flange diameters though) 28 Sapim lasers and a DT Swiss RR415. I am 80kg and when standing up climbing there is a litle bit of flex but it not a noddle either. So you probably will be O.K but some flex is still possible.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:31 am 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
LVGH wrote:
NONAME wrote:
that is good choice, but Sapim Laser is not good idea, i think Sapim Race or Sapim D-light for cyclocross

Do you have an online source for Sapim D-light? Also interested to buy CX-sprint as a more robust alternative to CX-ray for DS application..


I the U.K shops just order from Chickens cycles. CX spirints would be a special order over here. Given CX-rays are used in some downhill MTB builds I don't think the CX-ray spoke is bad one for cyclocross. Depends on the stiffness of the rim and the hub flange spacing/diamters though.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:06 pm
Posts: 39
bm0p700f wrote:
Depends how how power/torque you can generate. Those BHS hubs have fairly narrow spacing on the rear add to that your spoke count and the light weight spokes means some flex is possible. Whether it is enough to cause brake rubbing is another matter. I have hubs with similar spacing on a rear wheel (different flange diameters though) 28 Sapim lasers and a DT Swiss RR415. I am 80kg and when standing up climbing there is a litle bit of flex but it not a noddle either. So you probably will be O.K but some flex is still possible.


I see. In a sprint, I can do around 1400W. However, I'd be more concerned with it flexing at 800-1100W as that's where a lot of punch attacks happen more often. I'm not a pure sprinter. Also, I'm pretty light at 70kg (sometimes 68-69 during races)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:18 pm 
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Location: McCall, ID
jaketim114 wrote:

I see. In a sprint, I can do around 1400W. However, I'd be more concerned with it flexing at 800-1100W as that's where a lot of punch attacks happen more often. I'm not a pure sprinter. Also, I'm pretty light at 70kg (sometimes 68-69 during races)


I think this build should be fine for you. As mentioned, they don't have the widest flange spacing in the world, but I think that hoop in a 24/28 hole count should be just fine for your weight.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:02 pm
Posts: 468
Max recommended tension for the Escape is 105 kg. Combined with the poor DS vs NDS spacing of the Bitex/BHS hubs and conventional lacing, you'll end up with an NDS tension of 45 kg tops. A recipe for loosening nipples, and breaking spokes.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:06 pm
Posts: 39
Uh oh. Mackers vs. Zen Cyclery shootout. Any other opinions?

On that note, I would ideally get some alchemy hubs, but I can't afford them. I've seen some circus money hubs floating around that has wider center to flange dimensions. Would those be better?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:24 am 
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jaketim114 wrote:
Uh oh. Mackers vs. Zen Cyclery shootout. Any other opinions?

On that note, I would ideally get some alchemy hubs, but I can't afford them. I've seen some circus money hubs floating around that has wider center to flange dimensions. Would those be better?


I haven't worked with the Circus Monkeys at all. As far as Mackers comment, nipples breaking and spokes losing tension can be a very real problem. However, I think that with attention to detail (consistency of tension, proper stress relieving, etc) should allow you to avoid those problems.
With regards to the hubs, have you taken a look at the White Industries T11s? They aren't quite as wide of flange spacing as the Alchemys, nor are they as light, but they are a solid hubset and are damn good considering the price.

-Roland

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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:24 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:50 am 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I have a RR415 rear 28 spoke. I am 80kg. DS tension is set to 1100N whih is the max reomended tension. The Miche hubs I am using dictate a NDS tension of around 500N. With the tyre on and up to 110 psi that has dropped to ~450N. I have 2x lacing and the nipples have not loosened of yet in the first few hundred miles and the wheels remain very true. Flex is pretty minimal but is there. Spoke breakage well time will tell.

So I concur with Zen, low spoke tension does not mean spoke loosening off so long as the NDS tension is very even.

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