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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:37 am 
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You know all this justification crap makes me angrier than a meat ant whose nest has been jumped on by a naughty schoolboy.
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Why do people insist on defending doping by saying other people doped?
Do we do that for any other type of crime? Do we do that for any socially unacceptable behaviour? Do we say to our kids 'it's okay to call your teacher/mother/father/strangers names if other kids are doing it too?

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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:37 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:54 am 
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Along those lines, back in 1962
A thing is either right or it’s wrong, and if it’s wrong in the first place, then it’s still wrong no matter how many people do it.


And this is for a kid wearing a monster sweatshirt to school. What do you think Ward would say about doping and lying about it?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:01 am 
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KH1 wrote:
Why do people insist on defending doping by saying other people doped?
Do we do that for any other type of crime? Do we do that for any socially unacceptable behaviour? Do we say to our kids 'it's okay to call your teacher/mother/father/strangers names if other kids are doing it too?

Why werent all the others punished?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:56 am 
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KH1 "Why do people insist on defending doping by saying other people doped?"

People are not defending it . There has been doping in cycling for over a hundred years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... in_cycling" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like it or not it is the culture of the sport. No one is saying it's right. You just can't blame and hate one rider when most riders have or are doping in a atmosphere of high pressure and big money and the taste of victory. If you want to watch a clean sport i.e. athletics. football, tennis etc etc you are going to be hard pushed to find one. If we knew our to make cycling clean we would but know one yet has come up with the answer and that gos for all sports .


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:17 am 
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Why werent all the others punished?

Why don't you start a campaign against those riders that have escaped punishment? If you have evidence or you know someone who does then send it to the appropriate body. This thread is about Lance Armstrong and his alleged doping history. At best, you could rightly ask, will others be sought out and prosecuted by their governing bodies?
I suspect the question otherwise is not asking why others weren't punished but rather why not just let everyone get away with it?

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People are not defending it

By implying that it is unfair that Lance Armstrong is being hounded whilst others aren't that are also suspected of or known to have participated in doping? A level playing field? Everyone else was doping in that period? I don't know, that sounds like defending to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:42 am 
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Sorry, I wasnt specific enough. By "others", I meant Museeuw, Riis, Zabel, etc.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:37 am 
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Is it the USADA's role to investigate and sanction riders from Belgium, Germany and Denmark?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:48 am 
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Then, the UCI should do it.

Will Hincapie, Leipheimer, Vandevelde, Zabriskie, Vaughters also be punished?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:00 pm 
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KH1 wrote:
You know all this justification crap makes me angrier than a meat ant whose nest has been jumped on by a naughty schoolboy.


Why do people insist on defending doping by saying other people doped?
Do we do that for any other type of crime? Do we do that for any socially unacceptable behaviour? Do we say to our kids 'it's okay to call your teacher/mother/father/strangers names if other kids are doing it too?


i'm not defending anything, i just expect the 'level playing field' for all the cheaters. and i hate hypocrisy that hangs one man while lets the other one free for the very same misconduct. with Armstrong's case many people behave and speak like they've just discovered doping exists. it just creates a false and potentially dangerous image of cycling. false, because we all know Lance's just a cog (though a big one) in the drivetrain. dangerous, because many people will think bringing Lance down ends the doping saga in pro peloton.

officials IMO have two seemingly good options - they either introduce some kind of abolition, draw a thick line between now and then, or chase them all, investigate and prosecute all suspicious cases and figures, and exclude all the new-born clean cyclists like Millar from cycling. every path somewhere 'between' means businness as usual, but with slightly different names involved

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Last edited by tymon_tm on Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:47 pm 
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+ 1 tymon_tm well said .
There is no way that you will stop one determined individual who's seeking glory and victory from doping .
If you think about It the chances of getting caught are way in the favour of the rider and remember from all the evidence we know about Armstrong and co they passed 100s of tests without a single positive .
Basso ,Ulrich . Rasmussen . etc etc never got a single positive. Money, fame, winning big races and getting big contracts
who would not dope?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:50 pm 
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artray wrote:
remember from all the evidence we know about Armstrong and co they passed 100s of tests without a single positive .
If a positive is covered up by the UCI, was it a positive? Accordingly, did Armstrong ever have a positive?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:52 pm 
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artray wrote:
+ 1 tymon_tm well said .
There is no way that you will stop one determined individual who's seeking glory and victory from doping .
If you think about It the chances of getting caught are way in the favour of the rider and remember from all the evidence we know about Armstrong and co they passed 100s of tests without a single positive .
Basso ,Ulrich . Rasmussen . etc etc never got a single positive. Money, fame, winning big races and getting big contracts
who would not dope?



Basso, Ullrich and Rasmussen all paid in different ways. Perhaps not enough I agree. Armstrong gained far more and is a much bigger figure. No surprise then that he's the main focus.

In terms of the odds of being caught, you might well be right, and in such cases the standard response is to make the punishment an effective deterrant, which has to include a financial penalty given the incentive to cheat you refer to.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:53 pm 
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Perhaps chaps, now might be the time to gently fold the four corners together, wrap a ribbon around the package and tie a nice bow, and place this thread lovingly in the remembrance chest.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:25 am 
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We can't do that . We are still waiting to see what USADA have .
So I say "get out your finest belguim chocolates, drink a nice bottle of JD , lay your woman down at a nice angle and stay tuned for more exciting doping news "


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Most people don't care about Lance at all and will continue to view cycling as this weird spectacle of a sport that only Europeans could love. Just a simple fact of how the general public sees the sport.

Polls on the subject show "don't care" as registering higher than any other opinion on Lance's doping.

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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:50 pm 


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