Extralite Streeter Skewers - stretching on me?

[perullo]

I bought some the new Streeters skewers recently and have been riding them for a couple of weeks 200-300 miles.
I've noticed on several occasions that my back wheel has some vertical play. I notice it most when I grab the bike at rest to move it, and when I lift it by the seat I feel/hear the frame lift a few mm before the wheel comes with. On inspection, I find I can move the wheel up and down a touch. The skewer is NOT moving relative to the frame - it stays in place. The hub, however, goes up/down. When this has happened, I've opened the skewer and noticed it didn't feel near as tight as it did when I last secured it. I then give it an extra turn or two to tighten and reaffix firmly, and the play is gone. Until next time. It seems to happen when the bike sits overnight or a couple days. Anyone else notice this behavior with these or other skewers? It almost seems like the cups might be stretching/bending a little bit, which would be alarming if the case. I don't have a way (does ANYONE) to gauge the exact force I'm using to match the documented spec (18 lbs I think - whatever/wherever that means) but I do it by feel.. and make it pretty tight (these skewers creak pretty loudly when closed tight) without requiring any herculean effort/pounding/extra leverage. On a related note, on both the front and back I notice even when freshly tightened and not exhibiting any vertical play, I can always pull the tire to either brake pad and it will stay there - so there is some lateral flex. I have to guess/hope this doesn't matter with the direction of force applied in actual riding.

[NiFTY]

I think skewers seem to be getting much credit for their involvement in a bike. if there is lateral flex in the wheel it is on the wheel or frame. if the skewer is tight and the frame is pushed onto the hub then the skewer has done its job. the axle of the skewer is not taking vertical load, the frame rests onto the hub not the skewer. Have you tried other skewers?

[timzcat]

If you can push the wheel to one side or the other and it stays there then the the skewer is either not clamping enough or the wheel was not properly seated in the dropouts in the first place.
Put the old skewer back in, what happens?

[thisisatest]

does the instructions for the streeters instruct you to not lubricate them? if not, then i would put a drop of light oil on the cylindrical pivot of each lever. you will find it is much, much easier to shut, and you will have to adjust it tighter to get a good feel at the palm. lubricating the cam face is rarely necessary, i find that it really is the pivot that causes the bind.

also, some wheels have axles that protrude past the locknut face by a large distance. if that distance is near or past the thickness of the dropouts, the qr can bottom out on the axle before there is sufficient clamping load on the dropouts. some qr are more tolerant of long axles than others.

[tommasini]

Besides the prior suggestions, by any chance could it be bearing play (excessive bearing play)

If not sure what that means I'd suggest taking it to a compentent shop for evaluation.........

[Machinenoise]

+1

Sounds like hub bearings are loose/ not preloaded sufficiently. when you really crank the skewer tight it is compressing the components on the hub axle together reducing the play, although i doubt it'll stay like that for long on the road.

Sheldons got it covered for cup and cone hubs:- http://sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html

Principle is similar for cartridge bearings, but lateral play comes in when they are in need of replacement or the spacers and lock nuts are slightly untightened.

Should be an easy fix for a LBS.

[perullo]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Apologies for being less helpful; I just signed onto WW and apparently don't have mail alerts on comments enabled yet.
I will run some tests with my original easton skewer to compare the behavior and revert.

[perullo]

all rightie.. I'm back and armed with better data. I did some analysis this morning and collected some photos. I used a different frame - a bare test frame I have - with the same results.
I definitely do not have the same amount of play with my standard bulky Easton skewer. Further, I observed that the shaft diameter on the Streeters skewer is significantly thinner than on the Easton, and I'm suspicious that this is the cause of the extra play I observe. The photos illustrate:
1-2: this view of the inside left dropout where the hub mates shows the play I am observing. There is a grey area that is covered and exposed in the two images, respectively, showing how the hub can move against the dropout. Note this isn't completely free play - it happens with I manually push the tire back and forth.
3-4: these two poorly-focused images show the resulting relationship between the rim and frame when exercising this play. Note there is no brake caliper on this bare frame.
5-6: the skewers for comparison. I didn't have calipers handy but the difference in diameter is pretty clear.

I'm willing to conclude "who cares," and that the overwhelming majority of pressure on the junction is vertical, and almost no lateral force, since during hard cornering centrifugal force is still pushing along a vector out the bottom of the tire and not to the side. The only exception I can imagine is when you are rolling at about 2mph and executing a seated-upright turn in a parking lot with your hand on the inside bar top and swooping through the apex of the turn. I did that the morning after I put these streeters on and POW - I was on the ground. The front tire came OFF the rim. Really bizarre. I never got an explanation for it but now I'm wondering if it was this same play...

[mythical]

I definitely do not have the same amount of play with my standard bulky Easton skewer. Further, I observed that the shaft diameter on the Streeters skewer is significantly thinner than on the Easton, and I'm suspicious that this is the cause of the extra play I observe.

I suspect the culprit is this: the diameter of the titanium skewer rods at the hub axle ends that sit inside the dropouts is too small, therefore the problem of vertical play between the hub axle and the dropout arises. The skewer axle inside the hub is supposed to keep the hub in place, and the outside washers/nut keep the axle clamped tight against the inside of the dropouts.

The diameter in the middle of the skewer rods doesn't matter (think butted spokes). Rather it's near the ends where the skewer rods need to fill up the inside diameter of hub axle ends. If play exists between the skewer rods and inside diameter of the axles, then the hub can move vertically inside the dropouts.

I call it a design flaw on Extralite's part, and an unnecessary concession for the sake of an incredibly low weight, but this is not the only superlight skewer that creates this problem. Don't get me wrong, weight of the Streeters is very impressive, but I wouldn't dare ride them myself. I wouldn't be as confident in my bike, and its ability to handle what I throw at it without issues, rather due to the less than optimum design of the skewers than their minimal weight.

If you could somehow fill up the space, your wheel flop problems should disappear, but then that would add weight and this is, after all, weightweenies!!

[cerro]

But that space, does it matter. The thing that is important is the size of the end cap on the hub. The qr is just for clamping it all together. Diameter of qr isn't so important. Got small Tune U20 and not any problem with it with dt190 or cheap hubs

[tommasini]

QR (the threaded side) is most likely clamping well enough on the drive side but not clamping the hub/dropout enough on the nondrive.......On the nondrive side, check to see how close the axle end cap (the outermost portion that fits into the dropout opening) comes to the outside face of the dropout. It might be that this part extends longer than normal (or dropout width is less than typical). The one skewer tried must have enough clearance for the spring and just enough air space when clamped. The new skewer doesn't have as much clearance so the spring (or maybe you're not using one at all with the streeter) bottoms out on the end of the axle end cap before putting all the clamp force to the dropout face.

I'm traveling so don't have a suggested dimension as to how deep the axle end cap should be below the face of the dropout, but I think you could still check that close enough on yours to see if that's the culprit.

[thisisatest]

the issue tommassini mentioned is the same as i mentioned above, and it's still the most likely culprit IMO.
try taking the o-rings off of both sides of the qr, and see if the issue is slightly improved. also, if you could take a pic of the axle of the wheel while it's in the dropout, but without the qr installed, it would give us a clear indication if this is the problem or not.