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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:09 pm
Posts: 37
Hi,

Not been on here for a good while now, have started cycling to and from work about 6 weeks ago and also incorporated a longer weekend ride. I have drawn-up a training programme based on the number of days that i'm likely to be able to cycle due to work commitments and meetsings etc.

I'm no expert at this, but i would welcome any comments on the programme that i've drawn-up. My goals are to increase my fitness, lose weight and increase my overall speed, average power output and therefore decrease my journey time.

I've also just discovered the wonders of the dreaded 'Strava' and i have found myself riding like a lunatic for the last week - this can't be good!

Anyway, below is my details and programme: -

Paul Vine - Cycling Training Programme

Age: 39 Years
Weight: 69kg current; aiming for 63kg
Maximum Heart Rate: 182
Lactate Threshold HR: 160 to 170
Sub Threshold HR: 150 to 160
Endurance HR: 120 to 150

Monday
Cycle In: 35 minutes ride; 2x (10min + 5min) LT/Recovery Intervals at ST HR.
Cycle Home: 60 minutes ride; 2x (10min + 5min) LT/Recovery Intervals at ST HR; 2x (3min) VO2 max intervals. Remainder of ride at ST HR.

Tuesday
Off

Wednesday
Cycle In: 60 minutes ride at ST HR.
Cycle Home: 60 minutes ride at ST HR.

Thursday
Off

Friday
Cycle Home: 60 minutes ride; 2x (10min + 5min) LT/Recovery Intervals at ST HR; 2x (3min) VO2 max intervals. Remainder of ride at ST HR.
Cycle Home: 35 minutes ride; 2x 10min + 5min LT/Recovery Intervals. Remainder of ride at ST.

Saturday
Day Off

Sunday
180 to 240 minutes at Endurance HR.

Any comments, good, bad or indifferent would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Paul


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:20 am
Posts: 63
to go fast you first have to go slow....
that means base miles. i don't know if you schedule permits you more time for longer riders but if i were you i would try and getting more rides of 2hrs or more regularly....rides of 3hrs+ are optimal because this is the point at which your metabolic rate will change more quickly if you are regularly riding more than 3hrs. i realize this is not possible for most people but again if you can fit it in, then it will make a big difference. it is important to go slow initially to build a baseline level of fitness. this will be a a foundation on which you will build for the future. it is similar to a pyramid. the more base miles you put in, the higher the peak...or faster you can go. if all you do is short intense rides(like you have outlined) the body will not respond as quickly to a truly long term metabolic change. the intensity will eventually cause the body revolt and have periods of heavy fatigue because it doesn't have base fitness to draw upon. if you do the exact plan you have outlined but rather than go hard simply go easy and slowly start to increase your speed, then you will get better results. easy your body in to the level of fitness. trying to go all out right away will shock the system and take you longer to reach a higher level of fitness. if possible, long slow rides, then after a period of a few weeks or even a month increase the level of intensity.


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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:19 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:56 am 
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 2342
^ I'm just going say most of the above is wrong and has no real basis.

As for the program, unless you're an experienced rider double sessions can be taxing. I would opt if possible to spread the load a little. Also I would change some of the sessions for more intense work. For example changing one of Friday's session for a 3x3mins, making the other sessions
a Z1 doddle. And the ride on Monday a 2x20mims.

Have a way of testing your performance gains (or losses). In lieu of a power meter a fixed distance climb or course which isn't too effected by weather would be ideal. Test about every two weeks. If no gain, look to see if there are circumstances effecting this (lack of sleep, diet, rest) etc. if thats all good then maybe change training.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:20 am
Posts: 63
it's always fascinates me to hear something is wrong with absolutely no explanation as to what is wrong or why it is wrong...do what you want...good luck


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:11 am 
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ghostrider1tm wrote:
to go fast you first have to go slow....

Not true. No reason why some intensity cannot be introduced early. The amount will depend on how well and how quickly recovery occurs. Beginners will yield gains almost regardless of what they do. But after that adaptation occurs when the systems required are pushed to their limits. Then you recover and the system improves. This is basic concept of supercompensation. By only doing slow miles for a few months is getting you good at slow miles and not much else.

Quote:
that means base miles. i don't know if you schedule permits you more time for longer riders but if i were you i would try and getting more rides of 2hrs or more regularly....rides of 3hrs+ are optimal because this is the point at which your metabolic rate will change more quickly if you are regularly riding more than 3hrs.


Optimal? Decided by what? Metabolic rate of what?

Quote:
i realize this is not possible for most people but again if you can fit it in, then it will make a big difference. it is important to go slow initially to build a baseline level of fitness. this will be a a foundation on which you will build for the future. it is similar to a pyramid. the more base miles you put in, the higher the peak...or faster you can go.


The more mitochondria you have, higher VO2max (and power as percentage of vo2max), gas exchange, processing of metabolites blah blah etc etc, this makes you faster. This is not dependent on base miles.

Quote:
if all you do is short intense rides(like you have outlined) the body will not respond as quickly to a truly long term metabolic change.


The body responds very well to short bursts of intense exercise. You use the term metabolic change... I do not think these words mean what you think they mean.

Quote:
the intensity will eventually cause the body revolt and have periods of heavy fatigue because it doesn't have base fitness to draw upon.


Nonsense. Fatigue does need to be managed AT ALL TIMES but there is zero physiological reason why intensity ("threshold" and above) cannot be done year round. For my riders who have a proper off-season the majority of work they do is FTP and above.

Quote:
if you do the exact plan you have outlined but rather than go hard simply go easy and slowly start to increase your speed, then you will get better results. easy your body in to the level of fitness. trying to go all out right away will shock the system and take you longer to reach a higher level of fitness. if possible, long slow rides, then after a period of a few weeks or even a month increase the level of intensity.

As I posted above, I think it lacks intensity, there is no drive for the body to up the things which wil improve speed.

If I get more than 5 minutes free I'll post the corresponding studies which help to highlight why intensity rocks.

LSD can and does have a place in a training program especially if the rider is doing a race of any decent duration but having a "base" and this base being essential is just fantasy and is dictated more by tradition than any real science.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:35 am 
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Location: Geeeelong!
ghostrider1tm wrote:
it's always fascinates me to hear something is wrong with absolutely no explanation as to what is wrong or why it is wrong...do what you want...good luck

If you have some studies backing up your claims that would be handy and an interesting read. Otherwise TW has proven experience and posts a lot of links to studies to back his up.


On the other hand, the more of my competitors that take your approach ultimately the happier I'll be. As I know which one has gotten me the fastest gains over the past 12-18 months...

_________________
http://www.nicksquillari.com.au Forum Jedi


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:02 pm
Posts: 12
Hi Viney

The first thing to note is that you are on the right track by wanting to have a plan. There will always be differences of opinion on what type of training, intensity or volume presents the best way forward. I'm not going there!

What I will comment on is your plan, your plan seems to lack a SMART goal! What do you want to achieve? By when? How will you know you have achieved what you're seeking? How will you measure your progress?

As you'll see there's loads of questions coming out of it. So, the first thing I would suggest is that you take some time to think about what you want to achieve and by when. Once you've done that come back on here and ask for advice on how to achieve your goal. There'll be plenty of advice.

Hope that helps.


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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:34 pm 


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