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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:40 am 
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RedRacer wrote:
Quote:
What weigh you gained from there, you can easily loose with a different chainset. THM?


I seriously considered the THM M3 but from what I can see it only saves ~40g over the Super Record Ti and likely isn't as stiff or easy to set-up, plus I doubt it is as durable. Reviews also suggest the SR has nicer bearings. Oh, and the SR has a lower Q-factor...I think? Don't get me wrong, I think the THMs are super cool and I am a big fan of special, low-production parts but this time I just can't see the move to THMs as a net advantage. Am I wrong?

Yeah you're wrong :wink: Depending on your exact combo, the weight saving could be closer to 100grams. It basically just comes down to cost IMO. THM with Praxis rings will be a better crankset. Stiffness is a wash. Weight is lower and there are no extra concerns in regard to durability versus SR (there are MTBs with plenty of KM's on THM still rolling along nicely, rock scars and all). The THM is probably even easier to set up than the SR too because some people find the Hirth joint deal more annoying to work with. Oh and I never understand people thinking one BB is hugely different to another. They're basically all just industrial cartridge bearings in some kind of cup/shell. If the bearing isn't working for you, change it - really simple.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:19 am 
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Recon Alu shifts like shit. That's all I can testify towards


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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:19 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:38 am 
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Avoid the Specialized Turbo tubes. I had 2 unzip on me on consecutive days of a stage race, not worth saving the grams to then spoil a race or ride. I was running them with Schwalbe Ultremo ZXs (thoroughly recommended BTW) and I'm not that heavy at 75kgs. No obvious cause on either occasion, they just split wide open. :(


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:19 pm 
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Go the toupe s works.
Full carbon and mine was 115g
As for wheels at your size i would try hed belgium to alchemy 24/28 for bullet proof and budget.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Ribble has Record UT cranksets in 36x52 - only 175mm in stock at present. Has Chorus in stock too. SR waste of money IMO, but perhaps OP has too much? :P

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/chainsets-chainsets-road-campagnolo-record-ut-carbon-11spd-chainset/campchar962

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:57 am 
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Have you already selected your builder for the Ti frame?

I think a 110m stem is a bit short for a frame that large, are you sure you dont want to design it around a 120 or 130 instead?

The Enve fork and the THM you inquire about are different.
Enve has an axle to crown of 367 and rakes of 40,43, and 45
THM has an axle to crown of 372 and rake of 44.

Your bike can be designed for one or the other, but probably not both. You could use a 5mm lower headset riser to accomodate the Enve if it was designed for the THM for example.

If you want the shave grams, get a Chorus group since you intend to throw away the brakes anyway (get some THM fibulas) and then you can get the THM M3 crankset, scapula F with built in front brake. This is about $3k in unnecessary stuff, because your bike will feel exactly the same, but whatevers.

BTW the fact that you would even consider thousand dollar plus THM carbon upgrades that only save 50-100 grams, but ignore the fact that your 1400gram clinchers are total weight pigs... well that is priceless. Not only can you readily shave 400-500 grams with proper light tubulars, you could be rewarded with an appreciably superior riding experience. You could also probably swing a 300 gram savings with some bling clinchers like Lightweights.

I guess you already learned that Stans clinchers are shitola huh? That's what happens when you pay too much attention to forums to make your decisions. Try to remember that 80% of the time the guy raving about his wheels here weighs 65 kilos or runs a garage based business selling wheels to people on forums. You are a big boy, so take that with a grain of salt when a flyweight tells you something is stiff or durable.

If you care deeply about every single gram, you dont want a titanium bike. You should go with carbon. Or a carbon-Ti hybrid.
If you care deeply about riding a Ti bike, than stop sweating THM bits and get the important stuff sorted first (like wheels bubba).

Your initial build list with SR is nice! Don;t get pulled astray with the THM and spend the extra thousands-- save it for wheels or a nice cycling vacation with the missus.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:42 am 
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dayne wrote:
Go the toupe s works.
Full carbon and mine was 115g
As for wheels at your size i would try hed belgium to alchemy 24/28 for bullet proof and budget.


The C2 is a great rim, but in the sense of all weight weenieness, I think that there are better options in that profile. The A23 for example would save about 50 grams per rim over the Hed. Either rim would be a good option though. But sounds like the OP is going with the Fulcrums

Oh and I like the suggestion of the Lizard Skin DPS. If you wear gloves, it is super grippy and easy to wrap. If you don't wear gloves though, it can get a bit of a sticky feeling particularly on the hotter days in the saddle.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:10 am 
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I would go with 3t RIGIDA LTD fork. Not sure what your builder has in mind for headtube angle. It is also offered with tapered steerer. I've always thought 3t make good forks.

For a custom time bike I would strongly suggest tapered headtube and bb30 bottom bracket. I have a custom geometry lynskey hardtail mountain bike from when they first opened shop. The bike rides great except for the front end not being stiff enough and not tracking that great in the single track. The bottom bracket moves for me too. I can make the chain rub the front derailleur cages under lots of power.

Going to tapered headtube will help with front end stiffness. The bb30 will force the bottom bracket shell to be bigger in diameter which means bigger weld area for more stiffness. That is if the builder is able to select a bigger diameter seat and down tube.

If you go with bb30 bottom bracket my next suggestion is to go with specialized sworks cranks. Then get fibrelyte chain rings. You can get the spider from listing cranks to save weight and have more options. I have 5000+ km on my set on campy record 10 cranks amd still going. They shift good. Trust me.

For front derailleur, I heard of people complaining the super record and record are not stiff enough. I have no experience. But in that case get the chrous front.
Super record rear derailleur. Super record shifter and cassette.

Ax post and handlebar. Extralite mtb version stem.

Optimize the headtube length since you are custom to just 1 snapped spacer.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:17 pm 
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I just put the LizardSkinz DSP 2.5 tape on and it came it at more like 66g including the finishing tape they supplied and plugs. +10g grams is splitting hairs, and the tape is great. No complaints.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:05 pm 
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Hi reggiebaseball. Thanks for the reply and info. A few days ago I noticed your nice Moots in the "Show me your ti bikes" thread so I know you have some experience in this area.

Quote:
Have you already selected your builder for the Ti frame?


Most likely Firefly.

Quote:
I think a 110m stem is a bit short for a frame that large, are you sure you dont want to design it around a 120 or 130 instead?


That was a typo. I am planning to use a 120mm stem but I will also consult with the builder.

Quote:
The Enve fork and the THM you inquire about are different.
Enve has an axle to crown of 367 and rakes of 40,43, and 45
THM has an axle to crown of 372 and rake of 44.
Your bike can be designed for one or the other, but probably not both. You could use a 5mm lower headset riser to accomodate the Enve if it was designed for the THM for example.


Nice catch and I was already aware of the rake issue but hadn't considered the A-to-C difference. I would expect that a custom builder could accomodate for either?

Quote:
BTW the fact that you would even consider thousand dollar plus THM carbon upgrades that only save 50-100 grams, but ignore the fact that your 1400gram clinchers are total weight pigs... well that is priceless. Not only can you readily shave 400-500 grams with proper light tubulars, you could be rewarded with an appreciably superior riding experience. You could also probably swing a 300 gram savings with some bling clinchers like Lightweights.


I know that good tubulars would save a lot of weight but I don't want to deal with glueing tires and having to carry a spare tire when I go riding. I had a bad experience with custom wheels but never considered the Lightweight clinchers. The braking performance is still a question mark for me.

Quote:
Try to remember that 80% of the time the guy raving about his wheels here weighs 65 kilos or runs a garage based business selling wheels to people on forums. You are a big boy, so take that with a grain of salt when a flyweight tells you something is stiff or durable.


Wise words and I couldn't agree more.

Quote:
If you care deeply about every single gram, you dont want a titanium bike. You should go with carbon. Or a carbon-Ti hybrid.


I have a light carbon road bike so this one is for sure going to be Ti. Kinda' like wanting the fastest Porsche vs wanting the fastest car...I know this won't be the lightest bike but it can still be a light Ti bike!

Quote:
If you care deeply about riding a Ti bike, than stop sweating THM bits and get the important stuff sorted first (like wheels bubba).


If I can get strong, stiff, light and durable (I didn't say cheap) clinchers that are ~300g ligher than what I have then I am all ears!

Quote:
Your initial build list with SR is nice! Don;t get pulled astray with the THM and spend the extra thousands-- save it for wheels or a nice cycling vacation with the missus.


Gotcha'. So is your final answer on the THM M3 cranks and Scapula fork a no?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:14 am 
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For 95kg I'd go for the Enve fork. The height difference is negligible. I've used both on my Crumpton UL and couldn't tell any difference in steering. THM is more comfortable but more flex (even at 65kg).

You don't mention what terrain you ride in, but if you do much in the mountains I'd favor M5 over ZG. On the flats it really doesn't matter what you use.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:54 am 
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Hey Red, I am right there with you about clinchers vs tubulars. I've had tubies in the past and love the light weight and the way they feel. But, I hate, hate, hate their inconvience. So, I've been on clinchers for a while now and never looked back.

I did a build early this year that used Madfiber clinchers. So far I am quite happy with them. Had some noise issues at first, but a little tape around the stem cured that and now all is good. Big selling points to me were: sub 1300g weight, some aluminum in the rim to dissapate heat, no weight limit, and deep rims for aero. I weight 80kg, but ride some pretty rough roads (I live in China and ride rural roads) so the no weight limit was a really big point for me. Had to be bulletproof.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:12 am 
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I'm a little late to this one but would throw in a few thoughts:

As you've said, many on here weigh 65 kg and build bikes for that. I'm 80-85 and have a kid who's over 100 so have a bit of experience with parts for larger people.

Brakes - group brakes work, lightweight ones are a stretch for us bigger guys.

Fork - I don't know the ones you're considering specifically but ruined a nice Parlee by. Hanging out a regular Alpha Q for a light one that was just too foxy for my size.

Wheels - again, the lightweights push for carbon. Be careful with that idea if you do a lot of long downhills. More weight is likely to make more heat on braking.

Tires - if you like Michelin, stick with them. You can try the others and you may, or may not, notice much difference. I rode Vittorias for years because I like the feel but got tired of buying new rears after 1200 km. I switched after two rear flat rides which always seemed to come a little over 1000 km. Ive been riding Veloflex for a while and they seem supple and to outlast Vittoria. After not using Michelin for years, I bought a set of wheels that had them, decided they weren't bad and bought more tires cheap on a Ribble sale. I'm riding them now on a trip in France and they're only OK, but great for the 30 bucks a tire plus tube I paid.

I like much of the stuff on this site but sometimes find the obsession with weight at the expense of comfort or safety a bit much. I reall don't feel the difference between my 16.5 pound bike and the 17.2 pound one but both are safe and comfortable.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:47 pm 
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I normally don't reply to threads like this, but your post caught my attention because of two things, being 95kgs, and also the mention of bunny hopping. You don't usually see those two things together. That mixed with a weight oriented build can definitely be tricky, but here's my opinion.

Frame: Custom Ti --- To get a ti frame stiff enough for you it will be significantly heavier than a carbon. Your biggest weight savings could come from a carbon frame in place of ti. I'm going on the assumption that weight isn't everything with this build and you really have a strong desire for a ti frame.

Fork: ENVE 2.0 or THM Scapula ---- Enve. The Thm is a great fork but the Enve 2.0 is better for heavy riders.

Stem: Extralite OC 120mm --- At your weight you might find you have issues with the bar slipping in the stem. You should consider something more robust such as Syntace/New Ultimate.

Cassette: Campagnolo Super Record 12-27 w/alloy lockring <<updated ----Definitely stick with stock Campag. Regardless of shift quality of aftermarket ones, you'll find that you may snap teeth from alloy ones and fold cogs on ti ones.

Housing and Cable for drivetrain: Nokon ----- Alligator I-link mini or Aican would be the best choice.

Brake Calipers: Zero Gravity Ti (Also considering M5 brakes....not much chatter on these lately?) ---- At your size I wouldn't consider either of these. EE would be my first choice.

Housing and Cable for brakes: Campagnolo---- Again Alligator or Aican would be the best choice.

Crank: Campagnolo Super Record Ti 11---- If you stick with the Campag avoid the Ti version. Like others mentioned the M3 is probably a better choice. It's stiffer than the Ti Campag, has an open bcd, and is lighter. You mentioned that one reason to like the Campag was a narrower Q-factor but in all likelihood a narrow q-factor isn't what you need.

Chainrings: Stronglight CT2 110 38/52---- I'm not a fan of Stronglight rings. If you stick with Campag cranks and want aftermarket rings, TA is a better choice, however my first choice for Campag cranks would be Campag rings.

Chain: Campagnolo Record 11--- Kmc X11SL, in my opinion this shifts a touch better but runs quieter than the stock Campag chain, and at a slightly lower weight.

Seatpost: AX Lightness Europa--- No way would I recommend this. The stock Europa has an 85kg weight limit and even then it requires gentle use. I'd have a custom one made from either Schmolke or Mcfk.

Wheels: Fulcrum Racing Zero clinchers---- I think you could do better even sticking with clinchers. Archetype rim, 24/28 on some Alchemy Elf/Orc/Orc-UL hubs.

Bar Tape: ?? ---- I too like the Lizard Skin DSP Race.

Headset: Extralite---- I wouldn't recommend this. The micro upper bearing is too finicky and lacks durability. A Morion from Kcnc at the same weight is a better choice, but best still is to take a few extra grams and go with a Tune.

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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:47 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:57 pm 
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madcow wrote:
Crank: Campagnolo Super Record Ti 11---- If you stick with the Campag avoid the Ti version. Like others mentioned the M3 is probably a better choice. It's stiffer than the Ti Campag, has an open bcd, and is lighter
Is SR Ti crank not as stiff as SR/Record steel crank? At what rider weight or power would the difference in stiffness become significant? And I'm not talking about the 30 year old vintage SR Ti crank, LOL.


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