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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:26 pm 
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I know this has probably already been discussed quite a bit but is there anyone deciding to go with campy EPS instead of waiting for the new dura ace di2? What are the advantages of the two?


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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:26 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:07 pm 
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The biggest difference would be ergonomics due to the placement of the gear controls.
WW: DA 9000 Di2 is ligher than Super Record EPS.

No, I haven't tried both. Shimano is not interesting to me.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:35 pm 
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If you are "Campyman" you will love a "mechanical feel" of EPS, but if you can live with current Di2, then 9000 Di2 is huge leap towards EPS. (11speed + multisift)

9000 Di2 advantage: you can hide battery inside frame, (when I see the full group on scale, I believe that new Di2 is lighter than EPS)
EPS advantage: everything else

Still the biggest difference is that ergonomic difference what Kjetil said. I think there isn't many people out there who have ridden both groups. I have ridden with current Di2 D-A and Ultegra and of course with EPS, and these Di2 groups are still far far behind 10 year old EPS. http://www.campyonly.com/history/campy_timeline.html

Jep, I'm on campagnolo :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:47 pm 
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I have used both but ride SR EPS myself, mainly because I have always been a Campagnolo fan and have so many wheels/other components that changing was too expensive wholescale.

As mentioned, Campagnolo feels more like the mechanical version. However, when climbing out of the saddle on the hoods, it is possible to flick the inner gear lever by accident because the lever requires much less pressure than the mechanical equivalent. I have done this a couple of times by mistake at just the wrong moment.

Also, battery placement is less streamlined with Campagnolo as the brain is in there too, and nobody has been able to internalise it yet.

On the plus side, Campagnolo is a more robust product, and hey it's Campy!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:07 pm 
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In what way is Campagnolo a more robust product?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:22 pm 
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First, are you a morning coffee or tea drinker?
In the evenings do you drink scotch, beer or bourbon?

While all of these are interchangeable, you will rarely find someone who is ambivalent about the two. You don't drink "any caffeine" in the AM, you like coffee or you like tea.

Campagnolo and Shimano controls are fundamentally different. If you try them both, you will find you prefer one, it is that simple. The lever shape, the brake blade shape, the concept of a thumb lever, all radically different.
The premise of multi-shifting, campy has had it for years, Shimano is trying to incorporate it for the first time into Di29000.

Now, you are aware that Shimano 11 speed Di2 doesn;t exist in the market, right? That the only samples ever seen or touched were "reviewed" by magazines and sites that are supported through advertising by manufacturers and through special dealers that will eventually profit mightily through selling it. So, tell me what you think those initial reviews are, my guess is OVERWHELMINGLY positive. I would take reviews from essentially paid insiders, of one-off limited edition pre production samples, with a grain of salt.

No doubt the new shimano Di2 will be great, although I don;t know if it received the extensive years of field testing that EPS and original Di2 received on the pro peleton.


OP- what do you use now? If you have Shimano, buy a cheap Chorus group, put it on your bike and see if you like campy for a few months.
It is going to come down to which brands it and philosophy you prefer.

I think in truth that you should just leave the mechanical Chorus on there if you like campy, save yourself a few thousand and don;t bother with any electronic group, totally unnecessary.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:39 pm 
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It was possible to try the new 9070 at eurobike and I was impressed with the ergonomics of the levers. It is a very personal preference but what a feeling. It really felt good in my hands and one knows how if such a thing is important on a bicycle, especially when you use it every day of the year like I do.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:48 pm 
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I wonder if 9070 Di2 will have more of the mechanical feel as the 9000 mechanical definitely has more feel than 7900


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:07 pm 
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I tried both at Eurobike.

"Tried" means, on the rolltrainer, not on a real ride.

The Campagnolo EPS shifted overall better and faster and had a better feel than Shimano.

However both of them seemed to me unnecessary. My mechanical bikes shift as well as the electric, only without the "swish" sound the servos do.

You can keep your mechanic group and say "swish" after each shift. and save a lot of money by that ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:36 pm 
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SalsaLover. Lol. Totally agree with your "swish" comment. I have not used Di2 but have had quite a ride on EPS. I felt I needed to try it out before coming to my own opinion but really thought it would be at least as good as a perfectly set up mechanical system. To me, it is not. I actually feel shifting is more crisp and sure on my mechanical Campy SR. In fact, the "swish" sound made me think there was a delay in the shifting. Simply said, after having had a thorough ride on EPS, I still prefer mechanical. I could have put EPS on either my C59 or a recent build I just did, but like those dumb SRAM commercials a couple years ago, I CHOOSE mechanical. The difference between me and the commercials is I'm not under sponsorship to say that or getting paid by anyone to endorse it or feel I have to say something nice about it or risk losing advertising revenue for my magazine. Plus, with all the clunkiness of the battery and harness etc, it's just plain ugly.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:59 pm 
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You are right about the delay.

It is indeed short, but the thing is the shift happens after you clicked the button, ( so, push->click->swish->shift ) while in the case of a ( well setup ) mechanical system, it happens at the same time as the shifter clacks ( push->clack!/shift )

On the other hand it is true the electric push-click requires less force than the mechanic push-clack! but well we are not that weak that we need that help, or are we ?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:49 pm 
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You are totally wrong about the delay, sorry.
Shift move in mechanical is much longer than electric systems shift move (EPS). When you make shift (or push*) move in mechanical system (*Campagnolo) EPS shift is already happened. Trust me, I have both systems on my bikes. Same thing also with Di2 > the mechanical shift move is so slow (long) when compared to Di2.

On both systems (EPS and Di2) front shifter shifting speed is much faster than mechanical. Still all the highend ( Super Record, Record and D-A) mechanical groups are good, but faster than electric ones? No way. Wake up and take the real test ride, before manifest...

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My Look 695 SR + EPS : http://www.pellossalo.fi/content/uploads/images/medium/Look695EPS.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:14 pm 
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It's more the "feel", that electronic shifting is a "reaction" whereas the mechanical is an "action".
I have been doing races where my hands got so cold I had problems shifting my mech SR.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:41 pm 
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Tumppi wrote:
You are totally wrong about the delay, sorry.
Shift move in mechanical is much longer than electric systems shift move (EPS). When you make shift (or push*) move in mechanical system (*Campagnolo) EPS shift is already happened. Trust me, I have both systems on my bikes. Same thing also with Di2 > the mechanical shift move is so slow (long) when compared to Di2.

On both systems (EPS and Di2) front shifter shifting speed is much faster than mechanical. Still all the highend ( Super Record, Record and D-A) mechanical groups are good, but faster than electric ones? No way. Wake up and take the real test ride, before manifest...


I have ridden both (Campy EPS and mechanical, current 11spd). Unbiased. Wide awake. What I trust is that you believe it is faster. That's ok. But I know what I felt, and how it worked for me. And to me, I feel I can shift mechanical faster than it takes for EPS to do the same thing. Plus, mechanical just feels better to me and that is no small thing. Especially when shifting multiple gears. I know where I'm going to land with mechanical. I can throw things around any which way. It works. And if something does go wrong I can recitfy it. Turst me on this, if I wanted EPS, I would have it right now. I don't like the way it sounds, I don't like the way it feels. I prefer mechanical. It comes down to personal preference I guess. But I don't think anyone is going to lose any races because they don't have electric shifting, be it EPS or Di2.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:17 pm 
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Kjetil wrote:
It's more the "feel", that electronic shifting is a "reaction" whereas the mechanical is an "action".
I have been doing races where my hands got so cold I had problems shifting my mech SR.


A better set of winter gloves would have costed you less than the EPS ;)

HTH

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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:17 pm 
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