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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
Neil Pryde Bura SL 56cm = 772g with hardware
(740g w/o hardware)

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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
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Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
Great weight for the Neil Pryde!!


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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:06 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:50 am
Posts: 315
Supersix Evo Ultimate 56cm ~ 728g


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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:34 pm
Posts: 1650
Location: New York City
if supersix HM evo is 728g, would it be safe to say that the new Black Nano evo will weigh 686 (quoting the 40g drop in weight) in full trim??? the fork is said to lose another 10g. im guessing the 655g is also normalized - though 686g is nothing to sneeze at. thats a lotta bike guys - or not a lot. lol

hopefully the price wont change much and they offer framesets and we can see them on scale by this fall.

i havent checked, but what are the R5Ca weighing in @ 56 size frame?


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 Post subject: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:04 am
Posts: 114
I have a 54 CA not a 56


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 Post subject: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:56 am 
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And they are all a bit different - even in the same size I am told.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:01 am 
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Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
Correct, considering every frame is essentially made to order by hand, there is some variation from bike to bike.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:48 am 
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Location: New York City
JWolf wrote:
I have a 54 CA not a 56


JWolf wrote:
And they are all a bit different - even in the same size I am told.


What was the weight of your 54?

justkeepedaling wrote:
Correct, considering every frame is essentially made to order by hand, there is some variation from bike to bike.


i know they are made in California, by cervelo's engineer (i think). i thought these are mass produced frames, still. not made to order like a crumpton, parlee z1, etc. i dont think i can go ahead and say, "hey, can you change this or that". the lay up for every size 56 is the same, yes? the carbon used is precision cut by a machine and then laid down on a bladder/mould (or whatever they use), so i would assume very close weights for every frame. i would say all carbon frames are hand laid except for the impec; havent seen an automated system spitting out carbon frames. just because its not made in cali doesnt mean its not made by hand - chinese are people too my friend...lol <---joke.

i think the R5Ca is great. my long time friend and shop owner got 10 or 12 of them (4 sold in a day). i just think the price is too great for the frameset. yes, its nice, but it is not limited enough to justify the price. I dont know the price of the Evo nano black yet, but i am willing to bet it will be lighter and cost 1/3 of the price. i know its made in china and Ca is made in USA, which i am a big fan of, but come on $10k? i would need a lot of spare cash to agree to that price.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:32 am 
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Location: Oztralien
What about the A2J frame that was floating around a while back?
Dont know if its in production yet tho.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:07 am 
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Location: New York City
a2j frame is nice and light, but no where near the weight of a Evo or R5Ca. a2j is 850g (size 56) and has a 150kg/330lb weight limit. which means this is one tuff son of a gun - not meant to be the lightest of the bunch.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Posts: 360
The R5ca frames did not seem to add that much weight as they got bigger, at least with the 54 & 56cm.

Funny thing about this discussion is that they no longer make them and have not made them for many months. People complaining about the high price can now rest peacefully because you can no longer order one. Cervelo had a few left over but it looks like they stopped making them around the time they were having cash flow problems. I believe that the only reason they are still listed on the Cervelo web site is there are a few dealers that still have one in stock but the number is getting smaller.

I don’t think Cervelo was ever really set up to make that many. They never wanted to make that many and I think the demand was higher than they expected.

As far as price I think you could make a good argument either way. I have a friend that recently bought a carbon fiber ladder for his yacht. These are the ladders that you see when you walk down the dock. The aluminum ladders are heavy and are difficult to lift up and store. The carbon fiber ladders are much lighter but I was surprised that he had to pay $24k for a ladder and had to wait much longer than you would expect because they can’t build them fast enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:29 pm 
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Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
Ah, because many yacht owners are rich, and have plenty of money to buy "toys" or anything to increase their enjoyment of life/bragging rights.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Location: Insjön, SWEDEN
fletch62 wrote:
What about the A2J frame that was floating around a while back?
Dont know if its in production yet tho.


They will build a 750 gr frame for testing if I recall right.

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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:54 am 
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Location: In the industry
For a frame design with minimal surface area, such as the R5CA and its followers, as long as you use top (commercially available) carbon, nano, T1000, 65 ton, etc., and lay it up carefully, sometimes with internal molds to minimize excess resin/glue, then you are going to end up with a 7XX g frame. The R5CA is certainly the trailblazer on this front but soon it will be just one of many.

Unless there is a revolutionary change in materials used, 700g will be here for quite a while.

That being said, merely 10%-15% of the full bike weight is indeed plenty light already. Component integration will be the main source to milk more weight savings. What I'd like to see is a better crank/BB design (sorry but I truly believe so) and hub/cassette interface. Recon apparently has some really cool and light hub/cassette combo that they may release soon, I was told.

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 Post subject: Re: Lightest Frame
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:54 am 


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 Post subject: Lightest Frame
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:04 am
Posts: 114
I actually do no remember what the weight was. But some comments on the CA. As of about 2 months ago they were still building them - a friend of mine ordered one - they must have just stopped. That's too bad if they did. I think the CA was kind of a science fair experiment for Cervelo - and it became much more popular than they thought it would.

I think it will be back soon if it's gone - my guess is if they no longer are making them it because they are designing an electronic version to replace the old model. I asked them about a DI2 version about 3 months ago and they said maybe soon.

As far as cost is concerned - when you reach the limit of mass produced quality - and a manufacturer of anything - be it a car, aircraft or bike - makes something by hand - in very limited quantities - that moves the benchmark for a while - the cost increase will never be equal to the gain in performance - but if you want to own the best - you AG the difference.

Also, when I compare the quality of the build of my Cervelo to any of my other "high end" bikes - it is night and day. Aside from it being my lightest bike - it is also my best finished bike. The only think that is close in quality is my Colnago. There is zero metal on a CA - and the tolerances must be incredibly tight. To get a press fit BBright bottom bracket to work, the tolerance of the BB Shell must be 5x tighter than a normal BB Shell - that's why Cervelo only offers it on the CA. It save about an ounce in the bottom bracket, and it actually makes the bike stiffer - but they cannot achieve those tolerances on their mass produced bikes - which are very good - but not as perfect.

P.S. on build quality - I do not own a Z1 - but have heard that they are very good. But I do have another Cervelo, a Conago, and a BMC Impec.


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