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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:24 pm
Posts: 49
Situation:

I have 2 bikes:
- Training bike with DA7800 10 speed
- Racing bike with DA7900 Di2

I want to give Q Rings a shot to see if it gives me any improvement. So i want to use it during racing in the end at my Racing Bike.

What is the best way to start with it:
- Buy a set of Q Rings and 'adapt' to them on my Training bike?
- Should i change my Racing Bike at the same time? Or could i train on ovals and race on rounds?
- What about cranksets? For my training bike, i think the Aero rings match up quite nice with the DA7800. But the DA7900 crancks, well they sort of only match with DA rings...


Thanks for your opinions!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:38 am 
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Location: Sweden
What's the question? You have to ride the Q-rings for atleast a month, do yourself a favor and ride only the Q-rings and really follow the notes on 'brain training'. Training on Q-rings, and racing on standard rings, because they look better? Oh lord, save your money, lad...

I don't think the aero rings are the same shape as the normal non-aero Q's? Could be wrong on that one though...

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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:38 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:11 am 
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DMF wrote:
What's the question? You have to ride the Q-rings for atleast a month, do yourself a favor and ride only the Q-rings and really follow the notes on 'brain training'. Training on Q-rings, and racing on standard rings, because they look better? Oh lord, save your money, lad...

I don't think the aero rings are the same shape as the normal non-aero Q's? Could be wrong on that one though...


If i go Q Rings, i go all the way (so on both bikes). I just want to know the best way to introduce them. Start using them on my training bike (and in the meantime race with round rings) or install them on both?

Didn't know the Aero rings were shaped differently?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:35 am 
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Location: Denmark
The Aero and the standard rings has the exact same shape.

I would put the Q's on the race bike. The most recent study shows that the athlete gets immediate benefit on the Q's, even though the sensation can be different. Of course the full benefit will appear after "reprogramming" the brain and getting the muscles to adapt to the Q's.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:13 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:22 pm
Posts: 38
7900 looks hideous with q rings.

I would suggest getting 1 set of q rings and put it on the 7800. Tune both FD to the same crank and just swap the crank from the training bike to the race bike a few days before the race. Swapping crankset is easy and takes like 3 mins. It helps that both 7900 and 7800 uses the same BB so you don't need to touch that.

Thats what I do to my Quarq. 1 set on 3 bikes.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:35 am 
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Posts: 49
So i will start with 1 set of Q Rings (Aero 52-39 or 53-39). I'll mount them on my training bike on the DA7800 crank.

If i race, i will swap rings or crankset as fordred suggests. If i adapt to it, i'll buy an additional set of rings either mounted on the 7900 crankset or on a new crankset (Rotor 3D or Power2Max). I train with a PowerTap wheel, but don't use it in a race. So a Power2Max would give me some wattage numbers during races and matches properly with a Q Ring.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:38 pm
Posts: 572
Location: Greater Pittsburgh
I've been using Q-rings exclusively for over 3 years now (3 road bikes with Q-rings and one TT bike with Q-rings). Honestly, my adaption was within the first 10 minutes of my first ride. The benefit of the Q-rings to some other non-round rings is the ability to adapt the position of the max and min diameter for you by using the 5 different mounting positions. When set up correctly, you shouldn't feel the ovality at all, it should feel perfectly natural.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:06 pm 
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Location: Sweden
I gotta say that I hade some serious soreness in some new musclegroups the first couple of weeks. And that's perfectly normal as you do start using some other muscles more than earlier, and these need some time to develop, so it's not just a mental aspect, it's a physical one aswell. And this takes way more than 10 minutes.

There is no way ou are even close to getting the full advantage before you let these "new" muscles develop and grow a bit stronger.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:39 pm
Posts: 370
Location: DC
I've been very happy with my Q rings and it took about 10 miles to get accustomed to them and now I can't tell that they are oval but the benefits are there, especially when climbing. I also notice that I have been able to push a cog smaller in the back with these rings. Initially I purchased only the large ring and ran a regular round small ring. When I would shift down to the round ring there was definitely a difference and you can tell where the Q rings really excel. After some riding I was sold and purchased the small ring. They look quite nice on my Sram Force crank.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm
Posts: 82
BoerLowie wrote:
Situation:

I have 2 bikes:
- Training bike with DA7800 10 speed
- Racing bike with DA7900 Di2

I want to give Q Rings a shot to see if it gives me any improvement. So i want to use it during racing in the end at my Racing Bike.



I have Q-Rings on both of my road bikes, as well as my TT bike, so I am obviously a fan, but the one thing no one is mentioning here is shifting performance. Some claim that they shift just as well as [fill in the blank with your current groupset], but I find that (running SRAM Red) even with the Yaw FD, I get cage rub in a couple gears on both the large and small chainring. YMMV, but I am seriously considering switching to Di2 to eliminate cage rub.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:00 am
Posts: 98
Location: bay area, CA
I switch between TT and road bikes with the same crankset, Q rings set to the '3' setting. TT bike is steep and road bike slack STA. Somehow it works really well for me ... above '3' on the TT bike felt horrible (I had accidentally set it up with a '4' setting for a couple months), should mean that a higher setting would feel really bad on the road bike but for some reason that's not the case.

Also, road bike is sram force/red, TT bike di2. Road bike I had to use a washer from sram to angle the cage up a bit, as the 54t ring didn't fit.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 3868
Location: Bay Area
DMF wrote:
What's the question? You have to ride the Q-rings for atleast a month, do yourself a favor and ride only the Q-rings and really follow the notes on 'brain training'. Training on Q-rings, and racing on standard rings, because they look better? Oh lord, save your money, lad...

I don't think the aero rings are the same shape as the normal non-aero Q's? Could be wrong on that one though...


No you don't. The Rotor shit is nonsense. Studies have shown that Q-Rings do not positively influence static and dynamic loading aka they do nothing positive for the pedal stroke. Essentially Rotor just wants you to get used to them enough so you can rotate them to your liking, but it doesn't matter since the shape is non-optimal. A link to the study: http://www.noncircularchainring.be/pdf/ ... se%202.pdf

Note: "The Q-Ring is a brilliant example of excellent manufacturing
workmanship but is first and foremost a compromise solution due to
technical compatibilities and marketing reasons: ovality 1.10, slightly
modified ellipse and crank at 74°. But as with all compromises, this oval
is sacrificing most of its potential advantages. The problem of the Q-Ring
is firstly its lack of ovality and secondly, the crank orientation. Even with
the crank oriented in the optimal position the Q-Ring performances are
disappointing and remain very weak. The mathematical model does not
confirm the performance figures published by Rotor, neither in the crank
orientation as advised by Rotor, nor in any other crank angle orientation."

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 3868
Location: Bay Area
DMF wrote:
I gotta say that I hade some serious soreness in some new musclegroups the first couple of weeks. And that's perfectly normal as you do start using some other muscles more than earlier, and these need some time to develop, so it's not just a mental aspect, it's a physical one aswell. And this takes way more than 10 minutes.

There is no way ou are even close to getting the full advantage before you let these "new" muscles develop and grow a bit stronger.

Studies show this to be false- the Q-rings do not alter firing rates of muscles unless you rotate between the most extreme orientations. If you feel increased soreness its actually bad and generally indicates an unfavourable increase in static/dynamic loading.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:39 pm
Posts: 370
Location: DC
I do not regret buying my set at all. Although the mathematical equations prove no significant power gain, they cannot measure how the rings actually feel to use. I experience much smoother pedal stroke, especially when climbing. This again cannot be equated and each has to decide if its right for themselves. I purchased my large ring from a retailer that offers full satisfaction guarantee and will take back something I used if I'm not 100% happy. Needless to say I kept the large ring and bought the small.

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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:50 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm
Posts: 718
KWalker wrote:
DMF wrote:
What's the question? You have to ride the Q-rings for atleast a month, do yourself a favor and ride only the Q-rings and really follow the notes on 'brain training'. Training on Q-rings, and racing on standard rings, because they look better? Oh lord, save your money, lad...

I don't think the aero rings are the same shape as the normal non-aero Q's? Could be wrong on that one though...


No you don't. The Rotor shit is nonsense. Studies have shown that Q-Rings do not positively influence static and dynamic loading aka they do nothing positive for the pedal stroke. Essentially Rotor just wants you to get used to them enough so you can rotate them to your liking, but it doesn't matter since the shape is non-optimal. A link to the study: http://www.noncircularchainring.be/pdf/ ... se%202.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note: "The Q-Ring is a brilliant example of excellent manufacturing
workmanship but is first and foremost a compromise solution due to
technical compatibilities and marketing reasons: ovality 1.10, slightly
modified ellipse and crank at 74°. But as with all compromises, this oval
is sacrificing most of its potential advantages. The problem of the Q-Ring
is firstly its lack of ovality and secondly, the crank orientation. Even with
the crank oriented in the optimal position the Q-Ring performances are
disappointing and remain very weak. The mathematical model does not
confirm the performance figures published by Rotor, neither in the crank
orientation as advised by Rotor, nor in any other crank angle orientation."


There is no nonsense with removing the dead spot. Just for that alone, particularly when climbing, makes them worth the money to me. Have you used them personnally?

The extreme of the theory put into practice are the osymmetric rings. I dont see how they will hurt you, seeing how Wiggo and Froome somehow dominated the TDF using them. So maybe there is something to them? Results dont lie. That study isnt real world you posted.


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