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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:34 pm 
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Hi!

I need advice on what I need to train in order to progress further. My FTP has been increasing slooowly (from 340ish to 350ish 20min) for the past two months and I'm unsure what I need to do in order to give it a boost.

Now some numbers:

Me: 67-68 kgs
5sec: 1238w
1min: 717w
5min: 416w
8min: 365w
20min: 353w
1hr: Not tested, but I do 60min SST intervals at 300w with 6-700w minisprint every 3 minutes.

Edit: Threshold is at around 80% of vo2max (using the 20min * 0,95 formula). Should I "raise the roof" by getting a higher vo2max or push up the AT?

I'm getting tired of the looong boresome SST intervals and the 3x20min,1x60min etc. I don't feel like they do much... I typically do 3 or 4 interval sessions each week. 1 (2) SST, 1 @ AT, 1 @ vo2max intensity. Other than that I do LSD rides, so a typical training week is around 15hrs. I'm on vacation now and have the time and motivation to do 20hrs +, but I'm not sure what areas to focus on.

My "numbergoal" of the season is to close up on 370w avg for 20minutes and reach a 5w/kg FTP.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:28 am 
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Less is more. Even at my peak, as in much younger, I only did 2 days of intervals per week. are you sure you're recovering from each hard training day? Its hard to progress when you don't recover from your training.

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Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:28 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Hmm. I must admit, I'm kind of worried about not having enough high-intensity hours during a week... I'm "afraid" to drop down a level.

Last week of training:

Monday: 105 km 3hr 30. 1x60min @ 300w including 700w bursts every 3 minutes.
Tuesday: 150km 5hr 20. Last hour on TT bike
Wednesday: 95 km 3hr 40. With 7x8 min @ 330w (two rides, 1 1hr @ 120w average/95 cadence)
Thursday: 20km 1hr 30. EASY mountainbiking to get a great decent.
Friday: 65 km 2hr 30. AT+ intervals 4x8min @ 365w
Saturday: 60km 2hrs 20. Very easy and flat
Sunday: 7hrs 210 km long slow distance + 1x50min SST to get up a mountain with more than 50 in cadence (10%+ for 50 minutes)

Total of around 700km - 26.5 hours - around 1100TSS. Yes, this week was intended as a week with a lot of training and TSS. I normaly do about 500km - 20 hrs - 800tss with a week every 4 or 5 weeks where I drop down to around 3-400tss to rest up, where the week pre-restweek is a high TSS one.

My TSB is pretty darn low ATM and I'm feeling quite fatigued. Not so surprising.


I have a 4day stage race coming up at 2. - 5. of august, so this week will include some higher intensity intervals and less SST intervals. Then the week after will be prepping for that race. Where should I be TSSwise? I'm thinking around 6-700 this week, most coming from AT or higher intensity intervals.

I need guidance. Can anybody recommend some really great coaches? :noidea:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Very hard training and intervals, can't see some very hard rest. Nothing wrong with a solid 7-10day block but without allowing for the adaptations to take place you're going to be slowing inching downwards in performance, not up .

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:18 pm 
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Rest more, noted.

Any suggestions to how I should train the coming 9 days before the race?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:09 pm 
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yeah, here's my suggestion:

rest a lot, 1 or 2 intense day a week, drop volume a bit, thats it.

You wont loose any fitness in the coming 9 days, you'll be fresher for the race, and ther ace is gonna be a good training.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:31 pm 
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Wow, That`s a lot of junk miles. You can easily cut down some of the zone 2 you are doing around the speedwork and you wouldn`t loose any fitness at all. Have you checked your testosterone levels? I bet they are like a 12 year old girls.
More intensity less hours is my 0,02 cents.

Edit: Seems like you doing some mtb racing aswell, and I can tell you right away that you are training wrong for that discipline whether its xco or xcm. How does your legs feel walking a pair of stairs? I bet like shit.
But seriously that`s to much hours you should cut back and up the intensity :beerchug:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:13 pm 
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Ok, I get the point, more rest :mrgreen: :thumbup: . But I've been too afraid earlier to rest enough, being afraid of losing fitness. I guess it's time to swallow my pride and do some hard resting.

Thanx a lot for the answers. It's easy to get blind trying to see what you need to train and forgetting about the rest.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:25 pm 
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It is really easy to try to get as much hours in the "book" as possible.
What races are you doing? I think you could really lift off if you back off a little bit.

Kör hårt!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Snabb wrote:
Wow, That`s a lot of junk miles. You can easily cut down some of the zone 2 you are doing around the speedwork and you wouldn`t loose any fitness at all. Have you checked your testosterone levels? I bet they are like a 12 year old girls.
More intensity less hours is my 0,02 cents.

Edit: Seems like you doing some mtb racing aswell, and I can tell you right away that you are training wrong for that discipline whether its xco or xcm. How does your legs feel walking a pair of stairs? I bet like shit.
But seriously that`s to much hours you should cut back and up the intensity :beerchug:



I see nothing wrong with his training for xco racing. A high ftp pays off in xco racing. There are many ways to get stronger at mtb racing. Not only by doing micro bursts and anaerobic work.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:39 pm 
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devinci wrote:
Snabb wrote:
Wow, That`s a lot of junk miles. You can easily cut down some of the zone 2 you are doing around the speedwork and you wouldn`t loose any fitness at all. Have you checked your testosterone levels? I bet they are like a 12 year old girls.
More intensity less hours is my 0,02 cents.

Edit: Seems like you doing some mtb racing aswell, and I can tell you right away that you are training wrong for that discipline whether its xco or xcm. How does your legs feel walking a pair of stairs? I bet like shit.
But seriously that`s to much hours you should cut back and up the intensity :beerchug:



I see nothing wrong with his training for xco racing. A high ftp pays off in xco racing. There are many ways to get stronger at mtb racing. Not only by doing micro bursts and anaerobic work.


Have I suggested micro burst and only AWC work? :roll:
A high Ftp is one of the important thing to have for ALL bike racing disciplines. But for Xc racing I think less so than road racing. Specificity is the key to suceed in all sports. I think xc racing leans more towards training of under/over charachter and more v02max work than purely working on your ftp by doing endless long intervals on the road. There are many ways to train your ftp. Have all of cycling gone Bradley Wiggins mad?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:59 pm 
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agree on that point. Though sustained efforts can be a good way to increase FTP and some people might respond better to those.

Over/under and short vo2 is indeed more specific.

Also riding your MTB and putting the power down in the trail is another key element IMO


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:14 pm 
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The typical type of races that I do are 100-160 km long road races, and the occational MTB race to do something else. MTB races are typically 60km+ long with a lot of gravel (Yeah, I know...). Therefore, my goal for the training is road racing, not MTB. At least not until after the stage race. Then I'll do more training on my MTB and less on the road bike.

Plan for this week: More rest, less dead miles. When I'm first doing intervals, leave it all in the hills.

After the 4-day stage race my next big race is at 25th of august. It's a 94km long "MTB" race ("MTB" as in 92 km ish of fireroad - rigid maxxlite 29" it is). How should I change my training in order to perform the best there? The profile of the race.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 am 
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If you want a higher FTP. Train the power you want, that means more time above your current FTP. Maybe trade some of the SST intervals, and mix up the current FTP intervals. Try 3x15 or 2x20min. Also try to do 3 min intervals with 3 min rest at you target FTP with as many repeats you can until the power drops.

You current plan is good for stamina, but not for raising you FTP or Vo2Max.

Rest and do a proper 60min test, you have the time.


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Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:55 pm 
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Monday: Completely off the bike
Tuesday: 1 hr <150w avg cadence avg 95 + a lot of stretching and some self massage
Wednesday (today): 1 hr <150w avg cadence avg 95 + went to get massage again + some stretching.

Now what? High-intensity intervals? 3 minute intervals at 370-380w, and stopping right before I'm unable to keep an interval at that intensity?

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