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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7410
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
Four methods:

-know someone with a connection (or work in the industry)
-eBay: but while searching for deals, also search Google for shopping results, you may be surprised as some online shops are cheaper than eBay sometimes.
-the "For Sale" section on this site.
-your local for sale adverts (Craigslist is popular in North America, not sure if it's as strong in the UK or if there is an equivalent)

Buying used can be fine, by the way, as long as you trust the seller and review the condition thoroughly.

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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:49 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:19 pm
Posts: 66
prendrefeu wrote:
Four methods:

-know someone with a connection (or work in the industry)
-eBay: but while searching for deals, also search Google for shopping results, you may be surprised as some online shops are cheaper than eBay sometimes.
-the "For Sale" section on this site.
-your local for sale adverts (Craigslist is popular in North America, not sure if it's as strong in the UK or if there is an equivalent)

Buying used can be fine, by the way, as long as you trust the seller and review the condition thoroughly.


Worldwide distribution is interesting.

I have listed the following price points from official dealers.

Enve in Thailand is about 5% cheaper than Enve in the US.
Shimano Thailand is about 10-20% cheaper than Shimano USA.
Zipp is about 20% cheaper than in the USA.
SRAM Thailand imports directly from SRAM Taiwan and is 30% cheaper than SRAM USA.
Lezyne is also 30% cheaper than Lezyne in USA.
Assos is almost 30% cheaper in Thailand, Italy, and the UK.

Fully assembled bikes from Cannondale, Cervelo, Colnago, Specialized, and Trek are about 20-30% more expensive here but Giant is cheaper.

Thus, custom built bikes here cost about the same as fully built and imported bikes. But, there are no major sales here apart from the occasional close outs.

From grey market, direct importers, minus about 10% but no warranty. I suppose this would be like buying from eBay.

So, whenever I see a 20-30% discount in the US, with free shipping and no sales tax, it is a good deal.

Also, the end of season clothing 50% off sales in the US can not be beat.

Mark

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2012 Lynskey R330 with SRAM Red Quarq
2013 Parlee Z1 with DA 9070
2013 Lynskey Helix OS II with SRAM Red


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:59 am
Posts: 108
Location: Australia
New cranks and FD are the biggest improvement. Shifter ergonomics improved but not amazing. RD no discernible difference.

Sent from my ME860 using Tapatalk 2

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:24 pm
Posts: 80
I got a full new 2012 Red group, after riding old Red for 2 years. I gave the cranks to my wife because I have SiSl, so can't comment there. And I don't run a small front chain ring, so I can't comment on the new improved front d, but the buzz seems legit. Brakes work similarly, and not worth the extra price for loss of 30 grams. The only thing I like over my old Red group is the ergonomics of the hoods. A little quieter shifting with the cassette isn't worth the price, IMO. If I were to do it again, I'd buy the shifters only.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 296
Location: FL
glowder wrote:
I got a full new 2012 Red group, after riding old Red for 2 years. I gave the cranks to my wife because I have SiSl, so can't comment there. And I don't run a small front chain ring, so I can't comment on the new improved front d, but the buzz seems legit. Brakes work similarly, and not worth the extra price for loss of 30 grams. The only thing I like over my old Red group is the ergonomics of the hoods. A little quieter shifting with the cassette isn't worth the price, IMO. If I were to do it again, I'd buy the shifters only.



I opted not to get the brakes as I live in a very flat area and don't have wide carbon rims. I just ordered a set of TRP 920sl for very cheap to replace the stock tecktro 580s. My 105 5700 and tektro brakes are going on my gfs bike which is a felt with microshift. The 105 will be much easier for her to shift. I really like the feel of the new shifters vs old red based on a quick test ride but my bike has 105 now. My rear mech will get here today and I can start installing everything so I can't wait.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:32 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Denver, CO
$200 is nothing. get the new group. full groups work best together.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:15 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Northern Virginia
All update from me. Opted to buy 2012 Red shifters FD and RD. Will be using with hollowgram cranks, KFC x10sl chain and token cassette. Will advise how it plays together upon completion.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am
Posts: 806
I'm more and more impressed with the new RED front shifting every time I ride (old shifters). Had a climbing course race last night and the bike performed a hell of a lot better than me!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:38 am
Posts: 11
quick question; would any 34.9mm clamp work for the yaw fd on a caad9? or would i need the "2012 sram red fd adapter clamp"? surely the second is just marketing spiel


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:19 pm
Posts: 66
Caad9 wrote:
quick question; would any 34.9mm clamp work for the yaw fd on a caad9? or would i need the "2012 sram red fd adapter clamp"? surely the second is just marketing spiel


I have had both clamp adapters side-by-side. They do not look the same and have different profiles. Speedboat sent me the old-style SRAM FD clamp adapters by mistake with my order for the 2012/2013 SRAM Red group set. After a short email, they immediately shipped out the 2012/2013 SRAM Yaw FD clamp adapter shortly thereafter.

I am not sure if the slightly different profile might be necessary to hold the chain catcher for the 2012/2013 SRAM Red Yaw FD or to hold the FD in its specific geometry for the Yaw motion.

In any case, the Speedgoat site has both listed with different order numbers and different prices. I believe the price difference is about $6.

I would recommend getting the correct clamp adapter.

I installed my 2012/2013 SRAM Red Yaw FD with the appropriate FD clamp adapter.

For my upcoming build, if I decide to use the Rotor 3D+ and Q-Ring crankset, I might be installing the 2011/2012 SRAM Red Stainless Steel FD on that bike and I will be using the appropriate clamp adapter.

There was a discussion thread a while back about the SRAM Red FD shifting issues. I noticed that the the SRAM FD poor front shifting issues occured more frequently with builds using braze-on FD attached directly to their bikes. The SRAM FD poor shifting issues did mot seem to be as prevalent among those builds using the SRAM Red FD adapter clamp. One possible explanation was that the on-bike braze on adapters for the FD was at a slightly incorrect height, distance, or angle. Thus, I think using the appropriate FD clamp adapter could be important.

Mark

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2012 Lynskey R330 with SRAM Red Quarq
2013 Parlee Z1 with DA 9070
2013 Lynskey Helix OS II with SRAM Red


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:41 am
Posts: 534
Location: Toronto, Canada
I have been on SRAM since 2007 and on Red since 2008.

I just switched from SRAM RED black with a steel cage front derail to the new SRAM RED.

This is what I have to say about the group.

Shifting in the front is amazing. I do not have to worry about rub or trim and it shifts when I want and under pressure. I have a BBright BB and wanted to keep my Kforce light cranks so I ordered a set of S975 yaw cranks and those have a standard ring so I put those on the cranks to ensure I have the full Yaw package.
Shifting in the rear is the same
Braking is a little better but setup is more like the old OG brakes as you have to set the cable length properly or they will move to the side.
Ergonomics are better on the levers overall and there is more room for your hands on top of the levers.
The biggest improvement is the sound. My Zipp wheels made more noise than the drive train. I was with two others this weekend with Shimano groups that are pretty new and mine was the quietest of them all.

Overall I think the new group is worth the few hundred more compared to the old group. If you are going to spend that much you may as well spend a little more for a more refined group. That and since this is WW you have to get the lighter group.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 296
Location: FL
I have been out a few rides on my new Red setup. It's abosulely worth the upgrade. I tried the older sram red when getting my first bike. Decided to get the base CAAD10 and upgrade later. Coming from 105 the new Red is great. Shifts are fast and much more predictable with zero loss. The ergo shifters feel much better for my larger hands and now have enough space to easily leave my hands fully on the hoods without the bar cramping my fingers.

My scale from Amazon will get here today. I started with the base '12 CAAD10 5 as it was my first road bike and now have upgraded every part (except fram/fork). The bike is much lighter now but not sure what total weight is. I built it more for a better fit and stiff/durable parts. They just happen to be much lighter than the stock parts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm
Posts: 81
I have old Red on one bike and (parts of) new Red on another bike and while I can't make a proper scientifically A/B comparison since they are on different frames with different wheels, etc., I would note the following:

Crank/chainrings: No opinion there. I run Rotor 3D+ with Q-rings on both bikes.

Chain: Same. Been running KMC chains lately.

Cassette: New Red seems a good amount quieter than old Red. Then again, lots of people have commented that they have old Red running very quiet on their bike. I wouldn't make this a priority upgrade unless your Red setup is overly noisy and even then, that could be caused by something else, e.g. poor setup. IMHO, if I need to buy a new cassette, and need it to be Red, I would go with the new Red, even though it costs a little more than the old Red.

Shifters: Differences are very subtle. See the Velonews article re: mixing and matching old Red and new Red components. I wouldn't bother upgrading these.

Rear derailleur: Pretty much the same - no significant difference between old Red and new Red.

Front derailleur: OK, NOW we're talking. Old Red (with the titanium derailleur cage) was pretty sucky. On my old Red bike, this is being swapped out as we speak. No reason to suffer with old Red when Yaw is out. It's a whole 'nother subject, but lots of people have reported good results with Ultegra derailleurs (eg 6700) in place of the old Red FD. I do like the new Red Yaw FD though, and so that's why I'm upgrading.

Brakes: I'm guessing most riders won't notice as big a difference between new Red and old Red with the brakes as they will with the FD, but the new Aero Link brakes are pretty sweet and a definite (IMHO) upgrade over the old Red brakes, PARTICULARLY if you are running wide rims (I'm running 26mm front and 24mm rear). Their geometry really works well with wide rims - pads far from the rim, pads squared up nicely to brake track, early engagement, good power and modulation). I'm considering upgrading, but am holding off for the following (slightly dumb) reasons: 1) My old Red brakes are the Red/Black version, and I like the way the black brakes look on my bike (and SRAM does not yet offer the new Red Aero Link brakes in black) and 2) my old Red brakes are used with Zipp 101 rims (which are slightly narrower at 23.75mm) and are used with aluminum, rather than carbon, rims. So I get braking "feel" on my new Red bike (Aero Link brakes on carbon rims) that is quite similar to my old Red bike (old Red brakes on aluminum rims). But this would definitely be the area I would upgrade next, after the FD. YMMV.

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S5 VWD | 9070 di2 | Rotor 3D+ SRM | Enve 6.7s
Cannondale SuperX Hi-Mod Disc | Sram Red | Rotor 3D+ SRM | Zipp 303s
P5 | 9070 di2 | TriRig Alpha/Sigma | Quarq Elsa | Zipp 808/Super 9 Disc
T1 | Scatto | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:02 pm
Posts: 113
Thread revival alert! :)

Looking to upgrade now that 2012 is almost gone. Bike will be a racer as well which means crashes are possible so it seems like the 2011 shifters will do OK if the price is right. Question: Is there an actual difference between 2011.5 vs 2011 except for graphics?


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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:23 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:28 am
Posts: 112
Location: North Bend, WA
BTW, I second the choice of not going with the new Red. I purchased the new and setup my new bike with it - I wish I went with older Black version. On my other bike I have 2010 Red and it works like a champ (FSA BB30 cranks). FD is dialed and no issues. The only thing I really like about the new Red (I cannot compare crank) is the ergo of the shifters. The cassette is almost as noisy as the old one (I replaced it again with Dura-Ace and KMC X10-SL chain) and brake calipers adjustment is too finicky IMHO. The old Red did it for me and still does it well. Just my 2 cents.

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