HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:19 pm 
Offline
Formerly known as wassertreter

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Posts: 2008
Location: Pedal Square
I've been dialling in my 3x3min (3min break) uphill intervals so I can do a consistent set and be totally done after the third go.

Would you recommend another set after a longer break (6-10min?). The second one would have to be less intense to account for fatigue.

My goal is to work on "hardness" for climbs and 40km TT.

_________________
Bikes: Raw Ti, 650b flatbar CX


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:19 pm 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:21 am
Posts: 266
That type of interval isn't really made for your goals. That type of interval is more or less made for attacking/recovery work rather than threshold and muscular endurance work.


If you want to build 3 minute power, increase the rest interval and go as hard as you can go. I will typically do 3 minutes all out, 6 minutes rest. The goal is to continue until I see a 10% drop in my power. If you want to work on power for a 40km TT, then do 10-20+minute intervals.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 79
I find 3x3+3 to be a little to easy, I use 4x3+3 instead. I dont want to do half effort intervals, so I combine it with a 30-40 min tempo ride instead to keep a good intensity avg. for 2 hours.

I combine the weekly Vo2Max interval with a longer FTP interval like 4x16+8 @ FTP effort. This has improved my FTP 10% since March.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 2346
Any interval can be altered in order to elicit a particular adaption. For example 5 x 3min efforts at 105% of FTP with one minute rest will probably help FTP. 3min interval at 110%-125% FTP with 3mins rest probably would be more VO2max, maybe a bit of anaerobic too.

AFAIK, the 3min effort/3min rest protocol I have been using hasn't been definitely researched but arose from discussions from some sports scientists (apparently being used by x-country skies). The manner of their execution in this case was to for the effort to be initiated at a high level (for those on Zones - 5/6) and then a gradual decay to around FTP and then maintained till the end. 3 mins rest, repeat 3 to 4 times. Primarily working the VO2max range of power.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:02 am 
Offline
Formerly known as wassertreter

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Posts: 2008
Location: Pedal Square
Sorry if I expressed myself badly, yes I want to work on my VO2max/anaerobic with those intervals, for fast short climbs in racing and TT. It's my most intense workout at the moment.

For the last 2 years I did 6-8x 2+2min, but I noticed that while the first 2 mins are "ok", after that fatigue kicks in quickly, and the 3rd minute is way harder. (Pretty consistently through the set).

Tape, do you think a second set of 3x3+3min would be advisable after a, say 6min break, even if I would have to go easier by around 15%?

_________________
Bikes: Raw Ti, 650b flatbar CX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 2346
I think the second set at lower power would not be enough to elicit any meaningful adaptions. If you feel like you need more than the 3x3mins then introduce an additional interval, i.e.: 4x3mins or 5x3mins. But these are highly taxing I would expect to see diminishing returns for anything further than this.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:01 pm 
Offline
Formerly known as wassertreter

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Posts: 2008
Location: Pedal Square
Thanks once more Tape.

One more detail if I may. Currently I'm doing the first 2min in the saddle, and the last minute standing (all fairly consistently uphill).

Would it be better to mix it up a bit, and do the "out-of-saddle" minute at the beginning / middle / end of each run in an alternating fashion? Or stay seated altogether, and do out-of-saddle separately?

_________________
Bikes: Raw Ti, 650b flatbar CX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 2346
I would aim for the most specific to your needs, so if for TTs in the saddle all the way.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:22 pm
Posts: 876
Location: London
To clarify a little more on what Tape said about meaningful adaptations, and your initial comment regarding: "The second one would have to be less intense to account for fatigue."

If you are trying to train power at VO2 max, then you need to ride each rep at the lowest power that elicits your maximum oxygen intake. That way, you can repeat the highest number of times before you fatigue, therefore spending the greatest amount of time at VO2 max in the shortest possible time in one session.

Doing the first set as hard as you can will mean that either:

  • a) You have to rest for an hour between sets. And most races don't allow you to recover for that long between efforst, so that isn't going to help your adpatations.
  • b) Your 2nd, 3rd, nth set will be at a much lower power. And in this case, you subsequent reps are not going to drive the adaptation you want.

For instance, if my max 3min power is 500W, then I would be doing each rep about 430-450. If I went at 500W for the first 3m, then after 3m rest I would be struggling to do 450 for the second rep, and the 3rd would be much lower. That would mean the 3rd rep wasn't helping my power at VO2Max.

_________________
Snacking on carrot sticks - Where did it all go so wrong?
-
Finsbury Park CC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:59 pm 
Offline
Formerly known as wassertreter

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Posts: 2008
Location: Pedal Square
Cheers Matt.

As I'm not using a PM, I'm trying to do a consistent set, that leaves me totally toasted after the third go.

_________________
Bikes: Raw Ti, 650b flatbar CX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 1401
You want to spend as much time as possible in the zone where the desired adaptions occur. Being toasted is a side effect, not a goal.

Especially not one you want to accomplish with the first set, if you have more than one set planned.

_________________
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasures of a bike ride," said John F. Kennedy, a man who had the pleasure of Marilyn Monroe.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 3855
Location: Bay Area
I do 3 min. intervals quite often and target my 5 minute MMP for all intervals. I usually aim for 8x3min. and I generally set a ceiling for the first few just because I tend to go far too hard and fade. Sometimes I get 11 and once I got 12, but the general goal is that since its on the border of L5/L6 I do not want to make it a purely anaerobic capacity effort since that requires a different set of energy system pathways and different adaptations than what I want. The goal, for me at least, is to hit this power level because I haven't spent much time training pvo2 max in the past, the MMP is typical of most attacks/hard surges/bridging gaps in road races, and its generally where my MMP takes a huge nosedive. In addition, these also seem to somehow boost the hell of out my threshold so I've found that keeping it in the upper end of L5 is the most beneficial. Rest is generally equal to time on, but sometimes I might take 30s to 1 min. more.

Adhering to a sensible target power should help a lot. FWIW the first 4-5 aren't that taxing for me and my 3-5min. MMP is the worst part of my power plot. All of a sudden shit hits the fan around interval 6 and the last few are an absolute drag. If I do it right then I feel as if there is no way to keep breathing around 2:30-2:45 during the final interval and I get it out.

_________________
Don't take me too seriously.
Bike
Strava


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:54 pm 
Offline
Formerly known as wassertreter

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Posts: 2008
Location: Pedal Square
I have done the 3x(3+3) uphills for a few weeks now, and am noticing the effect kicking in.

What's also very interesting is that my pedalling is much smoother now, at least that's how it feels. In the recent years I did my 8x(2+2min) workouts with a rather slow cadence and powerful pedal strokes. This year for the 3min intervals I used a lower gear and higher cadence, and it feels great.

_________________
Bikes: Raw Ti, 650b flatbar CX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:01 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:08 am
Posts: 7360
Location: Geeeelong!
KW, just a few questions:

- if you're aiming for 5min MMP (to keep it aerobic) but going "too hard and fade" are you not actually then pushing in to anaerobic.

- the reason you're fading after 6? See above question

- isn't there a % power rule that when you can't hold (iirc) 20% of power aim the interval session loses it's effectiveness (so pushing for 11 or 12 is really not doing you any good)

- if the first 4-5 aren't that taxing, are you going too hard or not?


You lost me man :lol:

_________________
http://www.nicksquillari.com.au Forum Jedi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 2919
Location: Canada
Usually when I do 3 or 4 x 3min im toasted by the last interval...

Damn, 8x3. I must be bad....


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:11 am 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 
Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Glycogen Depleted LT Intervals

[ Go to page: 1, 2 ]

in Training

personicus

16

2933

Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:24 pm

devinci View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Muscle Tension Intervals and cadence drills

in Training

Kermithimself

3

81

Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:32 pm

Martin.F View the latest post


It is currently Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:02 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB