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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:26 am 
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Location: Central USA
Mr.Gib wrote:
And that road is really pretty basic. Didn't see anything there that really required any braking until that last curve and even that was not much of a technical challenge. He kept "standing up" the bike like it was going to high side instead of digging in and trusting his tires. Lame all around.


Well said

I watched - and watched again. Seemed so "lackluster" for such a final act......but thinking about it one possible result was that the skid wore through the casing and "pop" - end of story for anyone. Secondly, the "lackluster" ride down may have been the result of braking and more braking - that as Mr Gib noted, kept the bike more upright vs truly leaning into and carving corners.....so in that case it wouldn't surprise me if the rims could have been HOT.

As far as some prior posts....hey it could have been the skid shredding the tire or it could have been being too tenative and thus the hot rims. If the latter, remember that we all have to start somewhere. Just glad he didn't go down any harder. :beerchug:


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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:26 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:52 am 
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I think it's definitely possible that the guy picked up some debris in one of the previous corners that he cut too close. I don't understand why he didn't back off after the first slide - he kept pedaling a bit after and then obviously got heroic with the back brake.


About a month ago I had a rear flat on carbon clinchers during a 30 mph descent. I slowed and stopped without any issue whatsoever... point being; don't blame the wheels.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:35 am 
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HammerTime2 wrote:
Seriously, why didn't he try to come to a nice controlled stop after that first "incident" which could have "toasted" the tire?


Thats the first thing I was wondering. Also wondering why the guy giving pointers was not in the front to show appropriate lines and corner speed and why learn how to descend with carbon wheel sets? :noidea:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:48 am 
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first of all:horrible crash, really hope the fella is doing alright !

i really hope the dude with the camera is the coach of the 'crasher' if not he would have been a really annoying and b putting a lot of pressure on this guy. i think a bitt more theory training about wich brake to use would have been in place before going don the mountain and try to wing it....


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:47 am 
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Body position is too high and not in sync with bike, there are 2 meters between his head and the handlebars, use of both brakes when he should have used front only, he's too nervous too.

I hope he is fully recovered now and nothing too serious happened.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:21 am 
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Well its easy to be critical but just maybe his tyres just weren't grippy.
That would account for the tentativeness and the skid.
I feel a bit like that with with my Hutchie Intensives :oops: .
However he certainly should have stopped for a check after the skid.
Maybe he hasn't experienced a tyre failure from a skid before.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:02 am 
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Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
I actually personally am really tentative with my downhill cornering (mostly reduced lean angles), but nothing like this guy. Totally disconnected body and bike movement. My fear was from always having sh!t tires and never being able to trust them enough, and lack of descending practice (stop signs everywhere). Now even with good tires, I still have the fear. That being said, I saw no corners in this vid that were truly technical, and even with the small amount of lean he was putting in, he could have gotten by if he turned in earlier (or leaned harder once he started cornering).

At least it wasn't a bad lay down and seems like he got by without major injury. The "instructor" should have been in front showing the lines and the turn in points.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:29 am 
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He was using too much rear brake and locked up the rear wheel which caused the first skid. The way it fish tailed the second time still looked like a locked up brake when he was trying to slow right down but might have shredded the tire which is why it locked rolled then locked again and it was the fish tailing that threw him.

Clearly the way he was being "coached" from behind he was not too experienced descending and clearly not too experienced with braking. Couple of panic moments at tighter curves and off he goes.

Embarrassing, but a safe crash at least. No cars involved and didn't look bad enough to brake bones.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:35 pm 
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BobSantini wrote:
Well its easy to be critical but just maybe his tyres just weren't grippy.
That would account for the tentativeness and the skid.


I'd have thought poor grip would have washed out the front wheel? It's not like the bike is leant over very far though.

I'm with the others here, there are moments of fishtailing on several corners before he loses it which suggests a lack of cornering confidence and rear braking during the corners. Eventually that catches up with him.

Hopefully bike and rider are OK and lessons have been learned.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:37 pm 
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racingcondor wrote:
BobSantini wrote:
Well its easy to be critical but just maybe his tyres just weren't grippy.
That would account for the tentativeness and the skid.


I'd have thought poor grip would have washed out the front wheel? It's not like the bike is leant over very far though.

I'm with the others here, there are moments of fishtailing on several corners before he loses it which suggests a lack of cornering confidence and rear braking during the corners. Eventually that catches up with him.

Hopefully bike and rider are OK and lessons have been learned.


He's popped the rear tire.. And not had the instinct to get his weight forward.. You can keep a bike upright while very sideways once your over the bars.. Riding sweet fixas on the road with no brakes makes you a gun at doing just that
I'd say he's killed the clincher tire via over heating the wheel by dragging the brakes too much.

Unlucky, but the only thing I have to say about it all is.. If your gona coach some one into descending fast you DON'T do it from behind..l :noidea: that's pretty stupid... Auctally very stupid.

Best way to learn good postion and lines is to follow or be lead down a hill by some one fast and confident.. Doesn't look so good on the go pro but he wouldn't have cocked it up so bad.
Also carbon clinchers, learning to descend with vigor is pretty much s recipe for, well finding your self sliding along on your ass.. If you can afford lightweights you can afford to ride tubulars..

Lucky he's ok

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
parajba wrote:
Body position is too high and not in sync with bike, there are 2 meters between his head and the handlebars ...
High, yes, but 2 meters? :noidea:

justkeepedaling, Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail), wrote:
I actually personally am really tentative with my downhill cornering (mostly reduced lean angles), but nothing like this guy. Totally disconnected body and bike movement. My fear was from always having sh!t tires and never being able to trust them enough, and lack of descending practice (stop signs everywhere). ...
There are plenty of descents a little South of Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail) with no stop signs (except at the very bottom) - along Skyline (South of 92) or down either the ocean or bay sides http://maps.yahoo.com/#conf=1&start=1&l ... vt=m&trf=0 .


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Location: FL
On the youtube comments he admits to using his brakes too much. Looks like the lesson was a success. Minus a few thousand dollars now. needs to go clean some more teeth :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:51 pm 
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Total lack of cornering style and weight distribution. Weight too far forward and to the inside and rider a stiff as a board. Weight needs to be on the outside foot in a corner. This unweighted the rear tyre and it drifted, which heated it and flat spotted it which just set it up for a fail on the next corner

You should be using both brakes while descending to spread the heat over two wheels not one. Weight to the outside foot and lean the bike more than you to keep the C of G between the tyres contact patch and weight 50/50 on each wheel. Freeze the movie an instant before the rear wheel drift and see how his C of G is too the inside and very forward

He needs a few Mountain Biking lessons on a steep hill on mud or go ride in the snow, That will improve his technique a lot

Speed was not excessive, not that long a descent either so doubt the rims overheated (unless video was only last section or there is something seriously wrong with his wheel)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:04 am 
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Location: Central USA
Looks to be a Pinarello Dogma with Campy SR and Lightweights........OUCH :|

So in typical WW fashion I must ask what the bike weighs post crash vs precrash - maybe it lost a handful of grams?

And if it "successfully" did drop some grams that might be a future reply to consider for the next newbie who hasn't tried the search function and is seeking feedback on how to drop weight.......go practice your descent skills and you may gain one or more forms of improvements..... 8)


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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:04 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:41 am 
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He CRASHED!!

And he knows why.


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