HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:48 am
Posts: 1142
Location: Central USA
Others correct me if I'm wrong, but early (8 and 9 speed) ergopower did require a ferrule in the lever body for shifting. Then I seem to remember that about when 10 speed came along they did not require a ferrule - such that the cable kit began to only come with 4 gear cable ferrules - 2 near the headtube and 2 for the rear der dropout cable.

So that's my memory......but it's been 3 years already since I sold that gear off for 11 speed (definitely no gear ferrules there at the lever) So to give you something more concrete I checked an archived manual for 10 speed.....while is says 4 gear ferrules included, it also says install the rear cable into the lever with the cable end installed......so maybe my memory is faulty - does anyone else remember the correct method there at the lever body?


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:45 pm 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:49 pm 
Offline
in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 1083
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
If a bike is misshifting I always start with cable routing the check for friction in the cables. If I find any it's new and outer and new ferrules as it not worthg the faff trying to re use old cable/outer/ferrules if you suspect these are the problems. From what you describe it sounds like excess friction somehwere.

I think the best solution is get another pair of eyes on it. Find a freindly mechanic who will look at it after hours. A second set set of eyes can spot something obvious/or hidden that you can't spot.

If a bike is giving mke jip, I generaly start another job and come back to it with fresh eyes (I work by myself) and solution often jumps out at me and slaps me in the face.

_________________
www.thecycleclinic.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 914
Location: Toronto
Tommas - I've been through several (lots?) of 10-speed cablesets and never the seen the "included ferrule" on the end, and never used a ferrule in the shifter.

Campy's instructions are infamous for errors that never get fixed, so I'm not sure if this is one of those. Perhaps OP got one of those cablesets that I've never seen ? or perhaps added a ferrule at the shifter.

This is one of those problems that's difficult to diagnose online that I'm sure I could fix if I got my hands on it.

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1390
Bikerjulio- I indeed have a set of cables with ferrules on the end of them. In fact I've gone through three sets of cables all in original packaging bought from bike shops. Two of them had cables with ferrules on them and one set did not. I know it's something on my end, but I'm pretty new to Campy, so I'll have to break down and take it to the pro shop and see what they have to say, because I can't clean up the ends of the cables or route them any better than they are right now. I just got back from riding it and it actually shifts really nicely. Never a missshift, shifts well under power ect. it's just the noise when I shift down that bothers me. If I use the finger shifter or grab a little bit of cable at the down tube I can make the noise go away.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:12 pm
Posts: 213
Location: seattle wa
I'd bet that's a friction issue. Which route out of the shifter did you use? I find that using the outside (behind the bar) routing tends to produce less friction, and I even bring it from back to front on the underside of the bar so it exits in front with the brake and everything stays nice and clean.

Also, as others have mentioned you may have put an unnecessary ferrule into your shifter. If so, take care removing it. If the ferrule is metal, putting it in the fridge for a bit can help.

I always prep freshly cut housings with an angle grinder to create a nice flat end to the cut as it's actually very hard to cut housing perfectly with hand cutters, even if it looks fairly clean to the eye. You must also pay great attention to what happens to the liner at the end of the housing - if it gets pinched or folded you must correct it. Seemingly trivial amounts of friction can still overcome rear derailleur springs, or at least slow them down enough that shifting is noisy or laborious.

Whatever your issue is, it sounds like it is creating a large amount of cable friction. I would start with the shifter ferrules.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:09 pm
Posts: 1226
Location: In the industry
Considering 10speed stuff is probably quite a few years old, the answer could simply be a worn derailleur. I have one with the same problem. YOu are probably better off having a professional bike shop take a look.

_________________
Fast falcons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3mTPEuFcWk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
www.falcobike.com
Facebook: falcobikeglobal


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:23 am
Posts: 618
Location: heading to the scrap heap??
Older 10 spd cable set come with ferrules already crimped onto the shifter end of the outer cable section.
Newer (ultrashift) ones, the thinner cables dont from what i remember, as newer shifters dont require it.

I'd be inclined to say cassette spacers are mixed up rather than all the other options that i've never had to sort out although they seem to be the culprit on here all the time....

_________________
Official cafe stop tester


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm
Posts: 277
This is my experience from several years with a 10 speed set-up:

Ten speed uses the ferrules in the ergos and on either end of the loop housing for the rear der (different ferrules for the loop). Before 11 speed, the factory crimped the ferrules on the housing ends that go into the ergos. The newest cable/housing sets (called "Ultra Low Friction") are designed for both 10 and 11, and the ferrules are not attached at the factory. (You can also tell that the ferrules are for the shifter housings (4mm), because they won't fit over the brake housings (which require 5mm ferrules, are not supplied and are only used as needed on the frame stops)).

I don't think anyone has mentioned the loop. Make sure your loop before the rear der is long enough; a tight bend there can cause some problems; I use the full length of loop provided in the package and it always works well.

_________________
“Tuco” in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, “If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly old friend.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:58 pm
Posts: 174
Location: Wet coast, Canada
Not much to add here, but I have always used the 8/9/10 spd Campy cables and used a ferrule in the shifter. I always put the factory-installed ferrule in the shifter as others here have mentioned.

I would check that the shifter does not have an extra loose ferrule in it. If the previous owner used a loose metal ferrule it can get stuck in the lever, and then you can still install a new cable on top of it and likely have crappy shifting performance. Also like the suggestion of enlarging the chainstay-derailleur cable loop. I find most pre-cut cable sets give a skimpy length of housing for the loop. I usually end up buying 2 cable sets and making a longer loop out of one of the longer pieces from the spare set of cables. I can then use the inners as replacements later, and use the other longer piece for another derailleur loop down the road.

Finally, it is possible that a rebuilt shifter with new springs etc, might also need the index disc to be replaced. I had a hi-mileage Chorus 10spd shifter and when its springs went I took it to my local Campy guru to get them swapped and he also replaced the indexing disc as it was quite worn.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:44 pm
Posts: 1
There are a lot of tips about cable friction, ferrules, cable attachment location, etc.

IMHO, the issue is with the derailleur (RD) itself, or the chain, or both.

Downshifting (11 to 23) uses cable tension to pull the RD mechanism up the cogs.

Upshifting (23 to 11) uses the RD's spring to push the mechanism back down the cogs.

If your shifting issue is upshifting, then the RD spring maybe be weakened, or else friction in the RD is greater than the RD spring.

If you put the bike on a stand, then move the RD manually up to the 23T cog, and then disconnect the cable completely, the RD should upshift (move towards the 11T cog) on its own [when you start turning the cranks] using the RD's internal spring. If it doesn't, then the RD has a problem (weak spring and/or friction).

Also a possible fault is the chain itself. If the chain sideplates do not play well with your cassette, you will see this shifting issue. A lot of these problems have been solved with a new chain. I have great results with the KMC X-10 SL's, which I use on all 3 of my Campy gruppo'd bikes.

Just my 2 cents, from experiences I have had. Good luck! Let me know if this helps!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1390
I have given up on the Record ten speed. Gonna be selling off the entire group. New shifters, new chainrings, new cassette, new chain new cables. The only thing that isn't new is the derailleur. I could of had an 11speed record group for less than what I've spent so far, and I'm not about to spend a few hundred more for a new derailleur. I believe the derailleur is the problem. It simply isn't possible for me to get the cables to slide through the housing any smoother, so if it still has to much cable friction then it something I'm no longer interested in, because it just tells me that I'll be constantly changing them out rather than riding. Thanks for all the help anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 166
My Record 10 speed exhibits basically the same problem as yours:
It started out with some minor noise, then shifts over multiple cogs didn't work well anymore (jumping between two gears), now even single shifts sometimes jump two gears.

I've tried the usual adjusting of the cable, but it doesn't help: the shifting is either bad on the high gears or on the low gears.

The derailleur hanger alignment is basically perfect (checked with DAG-2).
I exchanged various parts:
- different rear wheel (with Veloce 10s cassette).
- different rear derailleur (Centaur 10s).
- different chain (Wippermann instead of Campagnolo).
- cable/housing (new set; I didn't tape the cable to the handlebar to avoid any extra friction)
none of the changes fixed the problem.

I'm wondering whether changing the shifter will solve the problem as in your case it didn't help to replace the inner parts.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1390
I didn't even replace the inner parts. I bought an overhaul kit from Branford bike and when I opened up the package I found a brand new shifter completely assembled minus the brake lever and hood.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:36 am 
Offline
Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5734
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
Bikerjulio- I indeed have a set of cables with ferrules on the end of them. In fact I've gone through three sets of cables all in original packaging bought from bike shops. Two of them had cables with ferrules on them and one set did not.


Two of them are 10S and one is 11S which works fine on 10S if you put the ferrules for your old cableset on the new one wherever they're missing.
The der. cables had their ferrules crimped on on one side (the shifter IIRC) and a loose fitting one on the cable stop end.

But I'm sure that's not your problem here.

Two more things that fit the description of your problem:

1/ The large flat coiled spring in the shifter has been put the wrong way around. The way the shifter looks it is actually counterintuitive to mount it the correct way. Sympton: all works well shifting up but when shifting down the coiled is not sufficiently tensioned and after a few shifts downwards it hangs inbetween cogs.

2/ The cassette spacers of (I think) cog 6 and 7 are in reversed position. Again an easy mistake to make which will make it impossible to perfectly align all shifts. it will either under- or overshift. Overshift is caused by too high cable tension (since you try to get it to shift up correctly) causing hesitant downshift. Undershift will cause chain rattle onthe middle cogs mostly.

Hope this helps, ;)

_________________
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1390
I'll have a look over the weekend to check out the large coiled spring. Spacers are all correctly orientated.
Is it possible that the new centaur cassettes and chains just don't mate up perfectly with the record 10 speed stuff? Thanks for the suggestions. :thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:57 am 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], mitchgixer6, mnmasotto, MNX1024, Mockenrue, mpulsiv, SolidSnake03 and 50 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Road bike for commuting, the wrong way to go?

[ Go to page: 1, 2, 3 ]

in Road

Schisms

37

3390

Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:07 pm

aaric View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Wrong installation cable F-derailleur: damage frame?!

in Road

Alreadyhadone

4

404

Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:31 am

lannes View the latest post

This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Shimano/SRAM 11 Speed wheels on Campy 11 Speed

in Road

dvincere

1

277

Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:51 pm

Butcher View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Shimano ST-6800 11 speed Shifters with 10 speed wheels

in Road

gjash

11

1234

Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:13 pm

btompkins0112 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Campagnolo super record/ record brake shoes?

[ Go to page: 1, 2 ]

in Road

Curious George

17

526

Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:18 pm

fignonsbarber View the latest post


It is currently Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:43 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB