Going over to Sram

[Kastrup]

I know the differences and the benefits of mixing and matching the Sram offerings have been discussed numerous times. I have read all of the topics i could find on the subject but have not found the exact answer i am looking for.

I recently went to an event where you could try a dusin of different bikes from the more expensive segment of roadbikes out there. This included the Cervelo r5, s2, s5, tarmac sl4 and my personal favourite the p2. Almost all of the bikes were equipped with mostly Sram Red but some bikes had sram Rival fitted. I mainly went there to try out Sram as i have been trying to decide what groupset to get next. I have now decided on Sram and the main reason is that the dualtap is very appealing to me and because the lever shape really fits the palm of my hand very well.

I now have to decide what mix of components to get, what i am looking for is: Brakes, shifters, RD, FD. Originally i had decided to get the Red shifters and everything else from Force the reason being that the old Red levers are cheaper than Force at my local dealer. But after reading through the various threads on the subject i though about ditching the Force and going Rival instead? Or maybe even full Rival?

To sum it up i want to know if the Red shifters are worth the extra dough compared to the Rival. And if the Force RD, FD and brakes are worth the extra cash compared to the Rival. If i went full Rival or even Red shifters and Rival i could probably afford some nice cables such as Nokon or Jagwire if this makes any difference. This is not as much a budget question as a question concerning the differences of the three groupsets.

I have added a poll, but would much prefer if people also explained their choices in the thread.

Thanks in advance

Emil

[andyindo]

2 of your poll options are the same thing.

[aaric]

I'd say red shifters are worth the price difference. They feel nicer. There's zero loss on both levers, and a reasonable weight difference.

RD: no real difference in shifting performance between force, red, and rival from my experience. Cabling/cable routing makes a bigger difference than the grade of derailleur. Weight is the big issue, and it's a small difference for the price. If you have limited funds, you are most likely better off putting money into your cockpit and cranks before a red or force RD.

FD: I'd shell out the extra $100 for the new red with yaw. It shifts that much nicer, even with old SRAM other parts. Force/Rival FD are the same IMO.

Brakes, Rival are adequate. Red brakes have more adjustments, and feel a touch nicer. Probably not worth the price difference though. Haven't run force brakes though.

Cassette: I'd run ultegra if price is a concern. Shimano cassette's just shift better in my experience (haven't tried the new red cassette - the $335 price tag has been a blocking issue there). I'm also a fan of the KNC X10SL chain, and its reusable links.

[bones]

2 of your poll options are the same thing.

This poll is rigged to favor SRAM over Shimano and Campy.

[RollingGoat]

Personally I actually prefer the feel of Rival and Force over Red.

[JTKK]

I'd say red shifters are worth the price difference. They feel nicer. There's zero loss on both levers, and a reasonable weight difference.

RD: no real difference in shifting performance between force, red, and rival from my experience. Cabling/cable routing makes a bigger difference than the grade of derailleur. Weight is the big issue, and it's a small difference for the price. If you have limited funds, you are most likely better off putting money into your cockpit and cranks before a red or force RD.

FD: I'd shell out the extra $100 for the new red with yaw. It shifts that much nicer, even with old SRAM other parts. Force/Rival FD are the same IMO.

Brakes, Rival are adequate. Red brakes have more adjustments, and feel a touch nicer. Probably not worth the price difference though. Haven't run force brakes though.

Cassette: I'd run ultegra if price is a concern. Shimano cassette's just shift better in my experience (haven't tried the new red cassette - the $335 price tag has been a blocking issue there). I'm also a fan of the KNC X10SL chain, and its reusable links.

Agreed, I would say get the Red shifters as they feel much nicer than Rival's and I'm running both currently.
RD, no difference between Rival, Force and Red, have run all of them with Red shifters and currently using Red shifters and RD.
I also agree that you should get new Yaw FD, much better than Rival or Force, but I have never used Red Fd though.
Currently using Rival brakes as bike came with them, so no experience of others, I really don't like them as they feel very flexy. Would like to update to something lighter and sturdier.
I'm Using Dura Ace 7800 casette and 7900 chain, very nice combo, shifts much better than 1070 casette and 1071 chain, again I'm really interested to try new XG1090 casette with 7900 chain.

If it's about the budget, Red shifters and Rival for other components and Shimano chain and casette.

[Ufgators]

Old red shifters, yaw fd, red rear dérailleur. Dura ace chain and cassette. This is what I use and it shifts flawlessly with my praxis chain rings. From my experience, there is very little difference in performance between SRAM red, shimano dura ace and eve EE brakes that I use now.

[js]

Kastrup - I like where you've started with this.

After years of running bikes with SRAM Rival groupsets (many which had Force shifters, purely for aesthetics), I've finally made the (second) leap to Red shifters and I'm pretty sure it's going to mean upgrading my 'cross bike too. I really love how short the throw is on the rear shift paddle. Because of my experience with the Zero-loss FD shifting, I guess I'd assumed that it would only be noticeable on the shift from the 11T cog (or 12T if that's your smallest), but every shift is that much shorter... and it's wonderful. I really like it.

Brake-wise, I've heard more then a few people say that the difference between Red/Force and Rival is worth the step up, but personally I still can't justify the price. Maybe if I thought my Rival brakes were letting me down, but I know for a fact that the current Strava KOM for the Sa Calobra descent in Majorca (and many others) was set with Rival brakes, so they can't be all that bad, right?

One other thing I'd think of might be the new Red Yaw FD. The reviews in the WW thread for it seem to suggest that it's doing just fine with the old shifters, so that sounds like a nice upgrade!

Finally, Red + Rival keeps things black... I just think that looks better on most bikes, and I can't believe that I don't have a pic of my new bike to prove that!?!

[roca rule]

rival i believe have the trim option on the small chainring and there is a long cage version of their rd that would be able to take up to a 36t on the back, and there is a small penalty as far as weight, but more options on gear combinations. if the bike is going to be mainly for climbing go for rival and maybe red shifters
otherwise go red and force combo.

[js]

My apologies, but I accidentally clicked the wrong button for my poll - the vote should have been Red & Rival.

Can those people who are suggesting the Red/Force combo please explain why they would choose to pay so much more for the Force Derailleurs over the identical Rival FD and a Rival RD that only has a slightly less-sexy carbon used for one knuckle, but is otherwise the same? Is it just the prestige, or am I missing something.

P.S. Rival's trim is also on the big ring. Only pre-2009 Rival & Force has little-ring trim.

[PoorCyclist]

I like Red Yaw FD and Force everything else... best bang for buck and nice colors

[jtsoderman]

With the new Yaw FD might old force brifters be the best choice? I've never used them (i've got red) but don't they not have the trim function? If you don't need trim with Yaw, then you can avoid the second click when shifting to the little ring.

[js]

I like Red Yaw FD and Force everything else... best bang for buck and nice colors

Please expand - why do you think Force is better bang for the buck then Rival? As memory serves, 84g is the difference between Force & Rival weights and most of that is the stiffer crank, which isn't being used here - yet Force is HUNDREDS more.

PLEASE expand.

[PoorCyclist]

I like Red Yaw FD and Force everything else... best bang for buck and nice colors

Please expand - why do you think Force is better bang for the buck then Rival? As memory serves, 84g is the difference between Force & Rival weights and most of that is the stiffer crank, which isn't being used here - yet Force is HUNDREDS more.

PLEASE expand.

I have only used apex and I feel the quality is cheap, the rear derailleur is crooked from factory causing me many grief, installed a couple of force RDs all been working great.. the shifter also get shavings inside, although I have heard of red doing that as well.
Just my opinion... I don't think you can go wrong with any kind of red/force mix be it budget, want the zero loss, or the asethetics..

[PoorCyclist]

With the new Yaw FD might old force brifters be the best choice? I've never used them (i've got red) but don't they not have the trim function? If you don't need trim with Yaw, then you can avoid the second click when shifting to the little ring.

The 2 click shifting to the small ring is not needed for rubbing issues, but it is not a bad thing to have, it releases some of the cable/spring tension with the first click and the second click drops the chain gently onto the small ring. This cuts down the chance of dropping the chain. You always have this option of doing a more gently downshift when it is bumpy.