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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:22 am 
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Sorry for what might be a long post. I also want to apologize in advance of any typos I may make while writing this post, it's a lot of numbers to work with so excuse me if I type something wrong, but I'll make an effort to get them right.

In 2010 I posted here a list of equalized complete group weights for the time. This week I finally got my hands on aftermarket Super Record EPS which meant I could complete my spreadsheet with all the current groups. Guess this is as good a time as any to share.

A couple of notes. The groups are all even, cables and housings are cut to the same length as are chains. Super Record and SR EPS are the only groups that have options and since they are top shelf I went with the lighter and more expensive option of ti spindles in the cranks and lighter brakes. But keep in mind that comes with a tradeoff in performance and price. So without further ado:

Complete group weights from lightest to heaviest:
1. Sram Red, 2125.6 grams
2. Campag Super Record, 2154.9 grams
3. Campag Record, 2263.7
4. Shimano 7900, 2277 grams
5. Campag Super Record EPS, 2285.4 grams
6. Shimano Dura Ace Di2, 2350.6 grams
7. Campag Chorus, 2352 grams
8. Sram Force, 2435.60 grams
9. Campag Record EPS, 2482 grams
10. Shimano 6700, 2529.2 grams
11. Shimano Ultegra DI2, 2619.3 grams

US Retail price for complete group from least expensive to most expensive.
1. Shimano 6700, $1292
2. Sram Force, $1325
3. Campag Chorus $1745
4/5. Ultegra Di2 and Shimano 7900 are the same, $2300
6. Campag Record, $2500
7. Sram Red, $2550
8. Campag Super Record, $3425
9. Dura Ace DI2, $3900
10. Campag Record EPS, $4600
11. Campag Super Record EPS, $5400

Now being that this is WW most of the variables will be replaced with others, so lets look at just the key pieces. (removing cranks, bb, chain, brakes and cassette.) Replacing cables with an averaged light setup such as Alligator. (100 grams for brake and 60 grams for shift.)

From lightest to heaviest
1. Sram Red 660.4 grams
2. Super Record, 729.1 grams
3. Record, 749.5 grams
4. 7900, 753.8 grams
5. Campag Chorus, 760.3 grams
6. Sram Force, 771.5 grams
7. Dura Ace Di2 822.6 grams
8. 6700, 875.5 grams
9. Super Record EPS, 891.8 grams
10. Record EPS, 899 grams
11. Ultegra Di2, 960.8


What surprises me is how little actual difference in weight between SR EPS and Record EPS, about 7 grams. This list also better shows the difference in weight between mechanical and electronic.

Another big surprise to me is that on the trimmed list Dura Ace Di2 comes in lighter than Super Record. Campag gives up ground with the battery, wire and bits that go along with making it all work. If you add up the essential electronic pieces (battery, mount, wires etc..) you get 230.7 for Campag electronics and 165.1 for Dura ace Di2 and even a little less for Ultegra. Also I think it's important to note that Dura Ace is a few years old and with the next one we can expect some weight savings. I'd also think that for next year we'll see SR EPS shave some weight, it's just too close to record EPS to justify itself, in my opinion.

One thing that I think is starting to come more clear to me is the need for Sram to get lighter bottom bracket and cableset. Notice how light Red is compared to SR on the trimmed list, but how little actual difference when you look at the complete group. Sram looses a lot of ground with the bb and cables. The other thing is the need for them to get moving with an electronic group. With Shimano announcing a new one soon for 2013 and Campag moving all the way down to Athena EPS it's clear that this platform is not going to go away.

I was going to list all the individual pieces and their weights, but it looks like I've run out of time today and it's a long list of numbers. I'll try to get it added to this post tomorrow.


Attachments:
epsbatt.jpg
epsbatt.jpg [ 68.52 KiB | Viewed 26633 times ]
epsbrk.jpg
epsbrk.jpg [ 75.65 KiB | Viewed 26633 times ]
epscrnk.jpg
epscrnk.jpg [ 78.37 KiB | Viewed 26633 times ]
epsfrt.jpg
epsfrt.jpg [ 74.87 KiB | Viewed 26633 times ]
epsrear.jpg
epsrear.jpg [ 76.68 KiB | Viewed 26633 times ]
epsshift.jpg
epsshift.jpg [ 83.64 KiB | Viewed 26633 times ]

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Last edited by madcow on Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:56 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:42 am 
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:beerchug: Brilliant!

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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:42 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:21 am 
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Thanks for taking the time to do this, will certainly be useful.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:24 am 
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This is ww'ism at its best. Again.

The trimmed list is really thoughtful. BTW, on the electronic pieces, Record is probably the same as SR anyway. It's hard to create artificial weight in the electronic world.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:15 am 
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What are SRAM doing in the BB that makes it weigh so much?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:40 am 
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Great contribution as always Madcow! I'm looking forward to the individual weights.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:53 am 
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Thank you!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:11 am 
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Excellent stuff madcow. :beerchug:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:25 am 
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Great stuff !

Trimmed list is useful though also at the extreme end of WWism; you could argue at that point you'd often be into modifying the remaining components where some might be easier to modify for WW savings than others etc.

What's the lightest "group" you could make up from off the shelf parts - using Red shifters and RD?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:11 am 
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Any idea what the difference in weight is if you use the SRAM BB30 crankset?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:51 am 
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madcow wrote:

Complete group weights from lightest to heaviest:
1. Sram Red, 2145.6 grams
2. Campag Super Record, 2154.9 grams
3. Campag Record, 2263.7
4. Shimano 7900, 2277 grams
5. Campag Super Record EPS, 2285.4 grams
6. Shimano Dura Ace Di2, 2350.6 grams
7. Sram Force, 2435.60 grams
8. Campag Record EPS, 2482 grams
9. Shimano Ultegra DI2, 2619.3 grams



Hello, what SRAM Red is it? The NEW 2012 model or the OLD one?
Could You please list total weights without cables?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:55 pm 
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:thumbup: Very educating!Could you also include campag chorus on the list especially with the trimmed list.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:43 pm 
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The Sram RED BB30 crank and bearings are each 52gms lighter than the GXP crank and GXP BB bearings.

Red 2012 BB30 crank 557g
Red 2012 GXP crank 609g

BB30 crank 52g lighters

BB30 bearings 53g
GXP BB/bearings 105g

BB30 bearing also 52g lighters than GXP BB.

Total 2012 BB30 Crank/bearing: 609g
Total 2012 GXP Crank/bearing: 714g

2012 BB30 is 105g lighter overall.


2011 Red is even a bigger difference:

BB30 crank: 630g with bearings
GXP crank: 760g with GXP BB

130g reduction in weight of BB30.


So they reduced 2012 crank weight by it looks to be 21g. Bearings haven't changed of course.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:54 pm 
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elviento wrote:

The trimmed list is really thoughtful. BTW, on the electronic pieces, Record is probably the same as SR anyway.


I agree they are basically the same, except that the SR EPS derailleurs and shifters are $475 more. As far as I can tell the only real difference is that the lower pulley in the rear SR derailleur is ceramic.


Ozrider wrote:
Any idea what the difference in weight is if you use the SRAM BB30 crankset?

No idea yet, since I haven't had a set of new Red BB30 cranks to weigh but you could do the math from Zeigmeisters addition.

Permon wrote:
Hello, what SRAM Red is it? The NEW 2012 model or the OLD one?
Could You please list total weights without cables?

All of the groups listed are the new 2012 versions.
I wouldn't be interested in the complete list without cables because it wouldn't be a fair comparison since you can't remove what would be the equivalent of shifter cables from the electronic groups. It would be fair to compare mechanical groups without cables, but not mechanical to electronic.

serbelo wrote:
:thumbup: Very educating!Could you also include campag chorus on the list especially with the trimmed list.

Yes, I've edited the first post to include Chorus.

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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:54 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Thank you, Madcow.

As always, a valuable post.

Thanks fro taking th time to do it.


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