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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:27 am 
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I've been having knee pain on the anterior side of my right knee after hard rides. I took some video today to see whether my knee is not staying within a vertical plane. From what I can tell my right knee appears to go out laterally on the top, and then push back in medially on the bottom of the pedal stroke.

I already have medial arch support insoles I got when I got my professional fitting. My fitter had cleats pushed in medially.

My other thoughts to move my cleats more laterally or decrease the float on the pedal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v6MsfJG ... e=youtu.be


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:39 am 
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yeah...probably should have worn cycling shorts, but they were in the washer and my "ADD" wanted to the video now. haha.


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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:39 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:03 am 
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Generally I avoid form/positional issue over teh interwebz because they are too many variables that cannot be accounted for with all due diligence. For example - I can't see your hips or you rfeet clearly at the bottom of the pedal stroke, nor can I see spinal alignment/curvature, pelvic tilt, leg length issues, etc etc. In short - too many things which may affect your form which really need to be seen in person.


If you've been to a professional fitter did these issues exist at the time? And, if so, how long since you went to said fitter? And any reason not to go back to them?

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"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:10 am 
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I originally had ITB pain when I went to the fitter. The fit cured that, but then I was left with bilateral anterior knee pain shortly after the fit. He told me to move my saddle slightly back, and at the same time I got a more comfortable saddle and the anterior pain went away (this was 2 months ago) Now I have been slowly intensifying my workouts the right knee pain has come back.

He's about 4 hours from me, so I guess if there isn't any mild adjustments that can be made to mitigate problem I will have to ask him his policy on return visits.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:42 am 
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ill chime in on this one... despite the kinda dark video, from the front only, etc...
your cadence stands out. do you pedal at that cadence regularly? if so, it could just be a simple stress injury.
both knees flare out at the top, and "wood chopper" down. you mention your fitter pushed the cleats towards the bike. to be clear, he moved your stance wider, correct? i think you could benefit from going wider still. your left knee follows more or less a straight line (diagonally) while your right knee appears to draw a bit of a figure-8. this may mean you could use a little more arch support in your right foot.
you could also have a longer right leg, actual or effective. your hips could be shifted towards the right.

i threw out a couple things to think about. in the end, as tapeworm said, it's hard to see exactly what's going on through the web.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:05 pm 
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Wow great feedback, thisisatest!

In the first video my cadence was a lot lower than I normally keep it. This one has a little more accurate measure of my cadence (I usually try to stay in high 70's to mid 80's).

Since my cleat was pushed medially (or more towards the bike), I would think that would give me a very narrow stance.

When I was fitted there was a leg length discrepacy diagnosed. I can't remember which leg now, but he wanted me to do single legged left-sided pedaling, so I'm assuming left? Which would make you correct about my right leg being longer.

I was thinking about the kinetics behind wood-chopping (and I may be totally wrong, since this is all spectulation and I know nothing about wood-chopping), but if my right leg is too long it would give it extra room to pull out laterally at 12'oclock.

To test this theory I put my saddle up another 1.5cm and the problem seems "better," but you can be the judge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfKliMYd ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Last edited by phourgenres on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:37 pm 
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Well, I adjusted my cleat out laterally (away from the bike), which should give me a more wide stance...I think. I didn't go all the way out though. If I am driving my leg in when I come down, that would make sense about "widening" my stance.

Also, I kept my seat up from the last video. Here is the outcome. Can't really tell if anything improved from the second video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTyzTQgj ... e=youtu.be


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Quote:
From what I can tell my right knee appears to go out laterally on the top, and then push back in medially on the bottom of the pedal stroke.


Were there any colored plastic items in the room near you ?

















(Just kidding)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:18 am 
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Location: NoVA/DC
if your cleats are moved in, your shoes move out. look at it this way: the cleats are always in the same position on the pedals, youre moving your shoes. if the cleats are closer to the inner edge of your shoes, the gap between the inner edge of your shoes and, say, the crank arm, is larger. wider stance.
1.5cm is a lot. in each filming, the camera is aimed a little higher than the last. it makes it hard to see how your ankling is, and if you are "reaching" with your toes at the bottom of the pedal stroke. side profile (or best-in person!) is best. another sign of a high saddle is hip rock, again to reach the bottom of the stroke.
lastly, without knowing where in your body the leg length discrepancy, if any, is present, i would address it last (or get some xrays to find out). you should get the other things are much closer to dialed first.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:57 am 
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Thanks again for the great feedback, thisisatest.

I moved my cleats back in so my shoes are now further from the bike. I took a video of my lower back marked with a piece of tape, and it stayed pretty static, so I guess I'm not hip rocking too much. I lowered my seat back down 0.5cm, just to be safe. Now I'm at 1cm higher.

I tried riding on Thursday after the 1.5cm rise, and again today after the 0.5cm drop. The anterior knee has become worse than ever during both periods. I'm not to sure what the problem is now. Now that I have straightened out my pedal stroke, I think I'm either putting more pressure on my anterior knee, or my knees are not used to moving straight and I'm straining some unworked tendon in my knees. I'm really confused, and the knee pain has now become unbearable.

When I orginally got fitted my fitter had me at 73cm which had my extension at 35 degrees on the down stroke, he told me to raise it another 1cm after I got a zero setback saddle, and now I've raised it another 0.5 cm from there (so 74.5cm). I thinking I'm probably somewhere at 15-20 degrees now. I've never heard of any someone getting anterior pain from having a saddle too high, but maybe I'm wrong...

I don't really have time to make a trip to my fitter until May, guess I will have to take a break from riding if I can't find any sort of solution until then. :(


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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:57 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:01 am 
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Location: NoVA/DC
phourgenres wrote:
I've never heard of any someone getting anterior pain from having a saddle too high

me either, or at least not directly. but if it's worse with a higher saddle, by all means, lower it! my suspicion at the moment is that it's an overuse/strain thing, and lowering it wont necessarily ease the pain.
did your fitter suggest you move your saddle forward with the new post? if so, by how much? a very rough guideline is for every 1cm you move the saddle forward, you should the saddle 0.5cm to keep the same knee bend angle.
sounds like it's rest and ice for now, return to the fitter asap!
good luck.


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