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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:18 pm 
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buikpijn wrote:
Since you mention the spindle itself is quite loose; are there significant black spots on the spindle itself? this indicates the spindle itself is too loose. I had a sram red bb30 crank that was way too loose.

My hollowgram and a few FSA bb30 cranks i've came across have way tighter tolerances.

On my 29er i use a rotor 3d+ crank with the bsa30 cups. Perhaps you can use these as a test, they are fair priced and come with the wrench to install them.

One important thing on the spindle; do you feel the machine-path of the lathe on the spindle on the actual contact-area of the bearings? if this is the case; that might cause your torn bearings too; since the spindle is sloppy in the bearings, the grooves are followed by the bearings causing them to mis-align. Contact areas of bearings in relative high load/low rpm applications need to be polished or at such a tight tolerance the bearing is unable to 'walk'


The spindle tightens up once you get it on there, and set the preload. That just tells me the center of the bearing centers the spindle, and the spindle shaft itself has a bit of a gap. The spindle is also anodized black, but does show signs of wear in spots. I think I am going to try the loctite on the the spindle. I think that has to be the problem. Can anyone suggest which loctite to buy? This link list the different types. I am thinking 640 or 660.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOCTITE-Retaini ... 92aff5d07f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:18 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:46 pm 
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I believe you're looking for the Green Loctite 609. 640 would probably be good as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:10 am 
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i like 603. a little stronger, and oil resistant.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:06 am 
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I bought some 680. It will be here Thursday. Hopefully I can get this all wrapped up by the weekend.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:24 pm 
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it wasn't the side/side play i meant; the diameter of the spindle itself. If it slides in without any effort, it might be slightly too loose. You can tighten it up axial, but i was talking about radial play.

good idea on the loctite. I'm using 609. Let it rest for 24 hours before applying any force on it.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:25 pm 
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buikpijn wrote:
Let it rest for 24 hours before applying any force on it.


My experience with BB86 and PF30 bottom brackets is that curing time is significantly reduced when Loctite Primer 7649 is applied first and allowed to dry for 3-5 minutes before applying Loctite 609.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:03 am 
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Okay the new Zipp BB is here, and I test fit the crank, and set the preload. The loctite still has not arrived. Hopefully it will be here tomorrow, and I can get it all together. I checked the bearing to spindle tolerance and there is a good bit of slop there. I think the loctite should definitely fix this. Clearly Lightning could of machined them to be a bit tighter tolerances. Oh well hopefully the loctite arrives soon.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:57 pm 
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If you use Loctite 609 how do you get the bearings back out? The Loctite data sheet says to heats the parts to 250 degrees. I don't really want to take a torch to my bike. What do all you guys do?

Thanks,
Dave


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:53 pm 
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Got the loctite 680 in. Put it on and it will be sitting for 22hrs. I thought my race was Sunday not Saturday, so I'll be racing in 22hrs not 46hrs like I thought. So it's either race the backup bike or race the good bike with only 22hrs of cure time. I am leaning to the later since it is lighter, and there is a big climb on the race. I think 22hrs should be close enough.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:31 pm 
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Here is a new video. Ceramic bearings installed, and loctite. The difference is obvious. I counted 8, yeah that's twice as many rotations as before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEU3Bb_K ... eTboLm8%3D

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:17 pm 
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djwalker wrote:
If you use Loctite 609 how do you get the bearings back out? The Loctite data sheet says to heats the parts to 250 degrees. I don't really want to take a torch to my bike. What do all you guys do?

Thanks,
Dave


I have the Enduro bearing press and have used loctitie 609. The bearings come out easily with NO heat required.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:55 pm 
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The reason I won't go BB30 is due to my experience with the design they were copied from; the Sweet Wings cranks from almost 20yrs ago - identical to the BB30 design. They generally worked fine, but as the miles piled up, there did develop a slight amount of radial play between the crank and the inner bearing races due to a very slight amount of wear. If one tries to eliminate the propensity to develop radial play through design, one needs to tighten the clearance between the crank and the inner races to the point where a bit of force would be required to put things together, and a puller would be required to take things apart. If you incorporate a slight tapered shoulder on the outside of the crank spindle that helps eliminate play by drawing things together as the crank spindle is bolted together, you load the bearings in a way they were not designed, thereby shortening their life.

The elimination of radial play and the noises that can develop was accomplished (by me, anyway) by using green Loctite between the inner race and the crank. The problem is in ensuring that the unit is running true when the Loctite has set. If there is play that you are trying to eliminate, this is almost impossible, and the play will be back quickly as the Loctite bond gets broken in short order. It is a good idea in theory, but in practice, I felt I was constantly trying to make them work properly, which they only occasionally did. I did not notice any other advertised benefits of the system, and until something better than my square taper Record 10s carbon system comes along, I don't expect to upgrade any time soon.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:34 pm 
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Loctite is a measure to merely hold things together. Folks here think of using it as an epoxy or superglue.

Yes indeed, BB30 bearings need to be able take far more of the sideways pre-load. BB30 bearings simply take the transverse, radial load from the axle spindle. The bearings at present seem too small to accommodate such a design, not to mention sitting inside the shell. They could certainly try and (really!) improve the bearings, but for sure it would need a crank-arm redesign. For this flaw alone, I'm not sure the system is worth the $1000 price tag.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:25 am 
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@ krusty!!!! EXACTLY!!!!


"and until something better than my square taper Record 10s carbon system comes along, I don't expect to upgrade any time soon."


I bought a NOS 3 year old frame for this exact reason!!!!
Some thing like "they can take my square taper Record 10s carbon system out of my cold dead hands" : ) I am 100% sure that they will outlast me.....


C


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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:25 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:27 am 
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im pretty sure that campy square taper bb uses radial cartridge bearings too. it's because the spindle is of a small diameter and relatively flexible that the system can tolerate a little bit of misalignment.
it's been said that loctite is not for keeping bearings in place. in fact, that's what these 6-series loctites are exactly for. they are used in all sorts of industries. they are used in mtb suspension pivots, factory machines, agriculture, aerospace, you name it. when dry, it is practically a plastic- a thin, perfectly fitting plastic formed specifically for where it is. pf30 uses a thicker, pre-made plastic ring surrounding its bearing to take up frame tolerances. shimano's bulletproof un-52/53/54 used a plastic left cup that was slightly tapered to take up any room. shimano's un-71/72/91 used an aluminum left cup that was painted inside with... a dry type of loctite to take up extra room. i could go on and on, but i think i just did.


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