Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Galleries NEW FAQ Contact About Impressum
It is currently Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:36 pm
Recently the board software has been updated and there are some known bugs/failures:
- Avatars are currently not being displayed ✔ FIXED
- Tapatalk connection is currently broken ✔ FIXED
- Avatars cannot be uploaded ✔ FIXED

Please note that we will soon do some changes in WW board template design in case to get a fully mobile/desktop responsiveness board!
If you find more errors please post it here: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=139062


All times are UTC+01:00





Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:48 pm
Posts: 937
Location: Denmark
I'm having a discussion on a danish board, whether or not your cadance affects your power. His statement is that at a lower cadance - such as 80 rpms, you will produce more power with a lower heartrate, compared to if you ride with a higher cadance such as 100 rpms. We're talking FTP testing.

My theory is that in order to keep a pace of, say 40 km/h, you need to produce x watts. If you do 400 watts at 80 rpm, or 400 watts at 100 rpm, doesn't matter.

But by using a higher cadance you will more likely not build that much lactat acid, as you would at a lower cadance. Right?

What's the general idea on this, and has there been made any avaliable reports on the subject?

_________________
-----------------------------
I like Spanish bikes and cars. Riding an Orbea Orca and a Seat Ibiza.


Top
   
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:01 am 


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:03 pm
Posts: 1311
Location: Denmark
My experience is that my heartrate i lower at lower watt. Take for example a 10 min powerinterval, which is around 290 W with 50 rpm for me, my heartrate is lower than if I rode 290 W for 10 min with 100 rpm. It sure doesn't feel easier but my heartrate is lower. After beginning riding with power I nearly never look at my heartrate anymore.

_________________
Technical editor at Cykelmagasinet Denmark

My Simplon Pavo II


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 79
From what I have discovered through me own rides is that. I have a lower heart rate at low cadence compares to high cadence, but I get tired more quickly at low cadence. As a result I ride TT at a high cadence compare to my normal average. I also get higher heart rate when in the drops, but I don't have to put out as much power to maintain the same speed in a headwind. (Im also from Denmark). I also has a theory that it depends on if you sit back (like climbing a mountain) are in the bar-tops or in the drop
I have tested this on an indoor train, and with a power meter outside.
Which Danish forum are you using?


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:48 pm
Posts: 937
Location: Denmark
Cool. It's Motion-Online.dk in my log "Kermits Cykeleventyr" :wink:

The part about producing more watts when climbing I think is because you're sitting more upright, and often get out of the saddle for variation, which you seldom do riding flat.

But cool with some IRL experiences :D

_________________
-----------------------------
I like Spanish bikes and cars. Riding an Orbea Orca and a Seat Ibiza.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 2585
Well you wouldn't be producing much lactic acid, period.

IIRC, there is a study floating around which showed low cadence (~60rpm) was more efficient for TT style efforts.

By the nature of the human body increasing the number of muscle contractions will inherently raise the metabolic cost to the body. However this is not the same as power output. There is a limit to the amount of torque that can be sustained by slow twitch muscle fibres over time.

Generally the best cadence for power is the one that yields the most power for a given time. This is dependant on the individual and the corresponding power output.

Quadrant analysis through power meters show general trends for this but there are aways outliers. Google Wattage Groups has plenty of reading on this.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4763
Location: Canada
I have seen that in my own Intervals over the years. If I am 'on the rivet' at the end of a long Interval, I will sometimes grab a bigger gear and change cadence to keep the watts up. The problem with that observation is that low-cadence power may not be sustainable for long periods of time and may 'artificially' alter your test results.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1405
Kermit, what your missing is that power is the multiplication of torque/force and velocity/rmp's , so while we can put out more torque at lower rpm's it has to be high enough to compensate for the lesser velocity to indeed produce more power , and that is were the sustainability and individuality issues come into play.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 268
bricky21 wrote:
Kermit, what your missing is that power is the multiplication of torque/force and velocity/rmp's , so while we can put out more torque at lower rpm's it has to be high enough to compensate for the lesser velocity to indeed produce more power , and that is were the sustainability and individuality issues come into play.

yes but is it still true that lower cadence with more torque will increase or decrease lactic acid in the muscles? For long term what will create more fatigue? Not that we can compare ourselves I guess, but according to Lance Armstrong one should ride on velocity of 90-110 rpm. That means on lower gears.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:53 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:08 am
Posts: 6783
Location: Urbana, Illinois
I've experienced the same as others here. My cadence in a tt is usually 65 to 70 rpm. At a higher cadence I find it harder to create power. My heart rate is lower too at lower cadence.

Not a great tt but alright.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/107194852

Also keep in mind I will be 55 years old next week.

_________________
RESIDENT GRUMPY OLD MAN.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Posts: 1594
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
My experience is that low cadence might help get a result a TT, it didn't work in the long term.

I by riding a 10m TT at full gas at 70rpm my legs would be wrecked for 3-4 days, whereas if I stuck with 90+ rpm I'd be training again in a day. Over the weeks of a season the recovery time adds up, and in addition beating yourself and making your legs hurt for days discourages really hard sessions. Overall I tended to do my best rides using a moderate gear "pedalling through syrup", rather than trying to stomping on the pedals. Whether that was training or ride related I couldn't say.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 1936
Kermithimself wrote:
My theory is that in order to keep a pace of, say 40 km/h, you need to produce x watts. If you do 400 watts at 80 rpm, or 400 watts at 100 rpm, doesn't matter.


This is why, one of my favorite sayings (and a hit among other old engineers like myself) is "In theory there is no difference between theory and reality. But in reality, there is always a difference."

Even in machines it matters, so I don't find it odd at all that it does matter in humans.
I too find that I can get a lot higher power at lower heart rate with low RPM's. In fact, I have found it amazing that if I am following a good climber, and I get stuck in 'too high a gear', I can maintain contact (for a while) until I downshift to a "more efficient" gear.....where I see them just creep away from me.

I don't have an explanation, but it must have something to do with muscle biochemistry and things outside the realm of pure power mechanics. Undoubtedly there are individual differences too.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:31 pm
Posts: 1049
I suspect the answer depends on your metabolic make up and one solution may not apply to everyone.

There simply cannot be one rule for all as our bodies are constructed differently. We all have an optimal cadence. Finding it is remarkably helpful.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 3036
Location: Canada
The best cadence is relative to each individual and depends on the terrain you are riding on, as well as wind, effort/duration...

My 2 cents


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Posts: 2077
Location: Canada
Removed


Last edited by LouisN on Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:41 pm 


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 79
Uhhh, flamebait. To ride with or without underwear :)


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 Next

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Need a lower headset top cap?

in Road

wheelsONfire

1

434

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

danbjpa View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Tuning a Dura Ace SRM for lower weight

in Road

jamesbass

8

820

Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:33 pm

sadisticnoob View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. CAAD 10 Lower Headset Bearing

in Road

OliverRB

10

605

Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:14 am

Lincs View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Lower back fatigue... glutes, hamstrings, core or other?

[ Go to page: 1 2 ]

in Training

flashd

24

2142

Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:31 am

User Name View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Replacement Canyon Aeroad Lower Headset Bearing

in Road

jimwhimpey

5

870

Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:02 am

Vermu View the latest post


All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited